Author Topic: Bend Over Democrats...  (Read 7818 times)

Offline Dago

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Re: Bend Over Democrats...
« Reply #30 on: June 02, 2008, 08:23:18 PM »
Unfortunately the Dems don't have the gonads to nominate Hillary. She would make a great President.

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Offline SteveBailey

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Re: Bend Over Democrats...
« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2008, 10:43:15 PM »
my guess is that bama will be told to select the ho for his veep


No offense but have you been following the campaign?   Not a chance.


Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Bend Over Democrats...
« Reply #32 on: June 02, 2008, 11:06:17 PM »
Actually, I think Hillary is the one leading in the popular vote. 

Its impossible to determine that statement with any accuracy inasmuch as about 4 states that dot report vote totals.

"her definition of "popular vote" now includes only primary states. In the past, she excluded four caucus states that did not report vote totals: Iowa, Maine, Nevada, and Washington. Now she's excluding all of them.

By excluding caucus states, Clinton is dismissing the preferences of voters in fourteen states, home to more than 56 million Americans and nearly one in five voters. And by Clinton's new rules, they might as well have never voted."
http://www.jedreport.com/2008/06/hillary-clinton.html

And...

"Oh, and it's not true.

Let me go through the numbers without making your head spin.

After Kentucky and Oregon, Obama has an official popular vote lead of 449,486.

This does not include Iowa (where Obama first broke from the pack), Nevada (where Hillary won the popular vote narrowly), Maine (where Obama won easily) or Washington state (another strong Obama state). Why? Because these caucus states don't officially report their popular votes. But if we're going to truly count all the votes, official and nonofficial, as Hillary advocates, you can't very well not include caucus states.

Adding in the unofficial tally from caucus states, as estimated by realclearpolitics.com based on official caucus turnout and the number of local delegates selected at the precinct level, that gives Obama a lead of 559,708.

Now we come to Florida and Michigan, whose popular votes Hillary says should be counted. The argument for counting them is no better than for counting the caucus states (and maybe worse, considering that these states violated party rules by moving their primaries up on the calendar, and no one campaigned there). But for the sake of argument let's count 'em. That gives Hillary a lead of 63,373.

HILLARY WINS POPULAR VOTE!

Not so fast. If the Democratic National Committee completes its expected settlement on May 31, Florida and Michigan will each get half of their votes counted. Translated to popular votes, that would subtract about 325,000 votes from Hillary, putting Obama back into the lead."

http://www.newsweek.com/id/138109
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Bend Over Democrats...
« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2008, 11:37:47 PM »

No matter which way its sliced. I dont see the Reps having much of a chance in Nov unless there is a MAJOR about face in the economy,gas prices. and to a lessor extent. Iraq.

With a weak economy and Gas prices the way they are. They are going ot be the two main issues. Reguardless of if anyone can actually do something about them or not. Each side is going to have to spew the rhetoric that they can.

On this front with Bush being as popular as he is the people are tired of the Reps way of doing things.
they are going to equate mcCain with Bush reguardless of how different he really is.
It doesnt matter. People see Republican. They think Bush
Strike 1 on trhe Republican ticket

If Hillary wins the nomination. Your going to see large blocks of Female republicans jumping ship, and female independants.
On that front Women tend to be women first. Political party memeber second.
I know of very few women. As I stated in another thread many of whom are republican. who wouldnt vote for Hillary simply because she is a woman. Many women regardless of party affiliation just want to see a woman president.
You can count my wife in with that group who would cross the lines
Strike for the republican ticket

If Obama wins the nomination. Large segments of black voters are going ot come out and vote for him simply because he is black.
Many of which might not have even bothered visiting the polls in Nov otherwise.
Remember. The USA has one of the worst voter turnouts worldwide.
Add to that he is putting out a message of Hope or "feel good" as Laz might like to put it.
True or not true. He learned a powerfull lesson from Ronald Reagan.
A large part of Regans appeal that got him elected was a dissatisfaction with the current party in power combined with his positive message "I Beleive Americans best days are ahead of us"
Potentially strike 3 for the republican ticket

To offset some of this there are probably a large number of white men and women of both parties who might come out to vote against Obama....Because he is black.
I have a brother in law who is a card carrying die hard Demoncrat who plans on doing exactly that for exactly that reason.

Obama is the only chance McCain has.

And even that chance is slim at best

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Offline Charon

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Re: Bend Over Democrats...
« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2008, 10:01:48 AM »
Wanna know Barry?

Here's a good place to start, about his start in politics. http://www.houstonpress.com/2008-02-28/news/barack-obama-screamed-at-me/ A good, entertaining and well written piece. Some snippets.

His Illinois State Senate Record:

Quote
Several months before Obama announced his U.S. Senate bid, Jones called his old friend Cliff Kelley, a former Chicago alderman who now hosts the city's most popular black call-in radio ­program.

I called Kelley last week and he recollected the private conversation as follows:

"He said, 'Cliff, I'm gonna make me a U.S. Senator.'"

"Oh, you are? Who might that be?"

"Barack Obama."

Jones appointed Obama sponsor of virtually every high-profile piece of legislation, angering many rank-and-file state legislators who had more seniority than Obama and had spent years championing the bills.

"I took all the beatings and insults and endured all the racist comments over the years from nasty Republican committee chairmen," State Senator Rickey Hendon, the original sponsor of landmark racial profiling and videotaped confession legislation yanked away by Jones and given to Obama, complained to me at the time. "Barack didn't have to endure any of it, yet, in the end, he got all the credit.

"I don't consider it bill jacking," Hendon told me. "But no one wants to carry the ball 99 yards all the way to the one-yard line, and then give it to the halfback who gets all the credit and the stats in the record book."

During his seventh and final year in the state Senate, Obama's stats soared. He sponsored a whopping 26 bills passed into law — including many he now cites in his presidential campaign when attacked as inexperienced.

It was a stunning achievement that started him on the path of national politics — and he couldn't have done it without Jones...

So how has Obama repaid Jones?

Last June, to prove his commitment to government transparency, Obama released a comprehensive list of his earmark requests for fiscal year 2008. It comprised more than $300 million in pet projects for Illinois, including tens of millions for Jones's Senate district.

Shortly after Jones became Senate president, I remember asking his view on pork-barrel spending.

I'll never forget what he said:

"Some call it pork; I call it steak."

Good old Emil Jones -- machine politician and steak lover.

An endorsement I had forgotten about from the same article:

Quote
Though it didn't make national news, Obama inflamed many residents in his old state Senate district last March when he endorsed controversial Chicago alderman Dorothy Tillman in a runoff election.

Flamboyant and unpredictable, Tillman is perhaps best known for once pulling a pistol from her purse and brandishing it around at a city council meeting. The ward she represented for 22 years, which included historic Bronzeville, comprised the city's largest concentration of vacant lots.

Just three months before Obama made his endorsement, the Lakefront Outlook community newspaper ran a three-part investigative series exposing flagrant crony­ism and possible tax-law violations that centered on Tillman and her biggest pet project, a taxpayer-funded cultural center built across the street from her ward office that had been hemorrhaging money since its inception.

The series won a national George Polk Award, among the most coveted prizes in journalism. Not bad for a 12-page rag with a circulation of 12,000 and no Web site. I had already left the Outlook and had nothing to do with the project.

In the end, Tillman lost the election despite Obama's endorsement, which critics said countered his calls for clean government. Obama told the Chicago Tribune that he had backed Tillman because she was an early supporter of his 2004 U.S. Senate campaign.

Some of Obama's other endorsements for change:

Quote
There was little controversy earlier this year when Sen. Barack Obama endorsed Mayor Richard Daley over two black opponents for a sixth term, lending his star power to an inevitable rout...

In the 2006 Democratic primary, for example, Obama endorsed first-time candidate Alexi Giannoulias for state treasurer despite reports about loans Giannoulias' family-owned Broadway Bank made to crime figures. Records show Giannoulias and his family had given more than $10,000 to Obama's campaign, which banked at Broadway...

Obama supported the re-election of Gov. Rod Blagojevich, whose administration is embroiled in corruption probes...

And during the race for Cook County Board president, Obama predictably endorsed Todd Stroger over a Republican. But he was criticized for calling Stroger "a good progressive" despite allegations of job-rigging to favor members of Stroger's 8th Ward organization...
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-obama_endorse_12jun12,0,484394.story

If you live in the state you would know that, aside from Daley, there is clear, broad and fairly bipartisan disdain for all of his endorsed candidates. These folk are considered politcal tools (hacks, corrupt, more of the same, investigated by both the justice system and the media, etc.) and are part of the state/cook county democratic machine. The endorsements were clearly politically motivated for anti-change. I personally include Daley and his corrupt city and county govt. in the group of political tools, but daley does have his ardent supporters with some room to argue the validity of the endorsement, I suppose..

I didn't mention Rezko because that's old news.

What about the federal level?

His mentor is Illinois is Senator Dick "Guantanamo is a concentration camp/gulag" Durbin. Ted Kennedy gave him an early and strong endorsement. Obama seems to keep similar political company as he does religious guidance.

His votes on key issues ( http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/o000167/key-votes/ ) mirrors that of the Democratic party, by and large. You will likley get change with him as president, they type of change you would expect under, say, President Ted Kennedy.

What about reform? Barry makes a big deal out of not taking obvious lobby money, but he has plenty of less obvious money from special interests. Not a single penny comes from an offical lobbyist -- all are individual donations. An awful lot of employees from specific institutions know for their progressive desire for change, like Wall Street, of course, gave Barry a bunch of cash:

Goldman Sachs  $571,330
University of California  $437,236
UBS AG  $364,806
JPMorgan Chase & Co  $362,207
Citigroup Inc  $358,054
National Amusements Inc  $320,750
Lehman Brothers  $318,647
Google Inc  $309,514
Harvard University  $309,025
Sidley Austin LLP  $294,245
Skadden, Arps et al  $270,013
Time Warner  $262,677
Morgan Stanley  $259,876
Jones Day  $250,725
Exelon Corp  $236,211
University of Chicago  $218,857
Wilmerhale LLP  $218,680
Latham & Watkins  $218,615
Microsoft Corp  $209,242
Stanford University  $195,262

Various links:
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/indus.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00009638
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00009638

There is of course, much more. The elitism charge dates back to his state senate days actually. He has played Hillery style games at the state/local political level and won with those tactics. He says he's against NAFTA in public but reassures the Canadians in private. He claims to be for the 2nd Amendment but is the worst candiate in the field on the issue (and was when there wwere more running).

Just another machine political tool, and one that manages to make Hillery seem better and more nobel buy comparison. And that says a lot. The best thing about Obama as President is not having Obama as my Senator.

Charon
« Last Edit: June 03, 2008, 10:11:59 AM by Charon »

Offline Airhead

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Re: Bend Over Democrats...
« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2008, 11:33:10 AM »
Methinks Charon is a Hillary fan.  :)

Offline AWMac

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Re: Bend Over Democrats...
« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2008, 12:15:50 PM »

If it's not in the papers it must not be true!

Mac

Offline Yeager

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Re: Bend Over Democrats...
« Reply #37 on: June 03, 2008, 12:32:44 PM »
Obama will give McCain a landslide for the history books....mehopes  :pray
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Offline AWMac

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Re: Bend Over Democrats...
« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2008, 01:48:33 PM »

Bill: "Dammm *hiccup* Hillery look ash all thess peoples, theys all jess Lub me!"

Hillery: "Dammit Bill will you just Shut Up?"
« Last Edit: June 03, 2008, 02:18:22 PM by AWMac »

Offline Charon

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Re: Bend Over Democrats...
« Reply #39 on: June 03, 2008, 02:59:32 PM »
Quote
Methinks Charon is a Hillary fan.

The tough old bird has impressed me more than I would have thought in this campaign by not giving in to the whole "now just step aside and let the anointed one rule" directives from the media and party elites. What the hell, actually. It's hardly been a blow out. Good for her. Fight for your dreams. But not a fan of hers by any means :)

Ron Paul is more my taste. In fact, the only candidate I could honestly support, flaws and all. The only one with my core small government, individual rights, libertarian-leaning (but not totally anarchist) beliefs. Right on foreign policy, trade, immigration and domestic policy. Perhaps even the economy.

As for Barry...

If you want him in office because he will provide a a traditional but far left progressive focus then you won't be disappointed. If you want the type of change a Dick Durbin or Ted Kennedy or Nancy Pelosi would encourage than I bet that's what you will get. But, he will be just as involved with the pork and special interests as any of the current candidates. A different pot of pork, somewhat, but more spending, more special interests, fewer freedoms and rights and a bigger federal govt. People say "four more years of bush" with McCain, but IMO it's functionally the same with either Obama or Hillery.

The only two candidates that were true outsiders to the system are out of the running. The rest were/are all machine, insider politicians. That's the way it works. The parties pick the slate of acceptable, no change status quo politicians and we get to pick the lesser of two evils as our shining role in the Republic. Yeah!

Charon




Offline Makarov9

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Re: Bend Over Democrats...
« Reply #40 on: June 03, 2008, 05:01:32 PM »

Offline AKIron

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Re: Bend Over Democrats...
« Reply #41 on: June 03, 2008, 05:05:32 PM »
No offense but have you been following the campaign?   Not a chance.



I think his only shot is to pick her and I think he will.
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Offline Holden McGroin

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Re: Bend Over Democrats...
« Reply #42 on: June 03, 2008, 07:20:47 PM »
I think his only shot is to pick her and I think he will.

She brings along a lot of negatives though.  Could be a losers choice as well.
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Offline Eagler

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Re: Bend Over Democrats...
« Reply #43 on: June 03, 2008, 07:39:59 PM »
She brings along a lot of negatives though.  Could be a losers choice as well.

maybe but he loses for sure if he picks ANYONE else
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Bend Over Democrats...
« Reply #44 on: June 03, 2008, 10:01:58 PM »
For those who think an Obama Nomination will mean an easy McCain win.

Remember the election is about 6 months away

6 Months ago Hillary was considered a virtual shoe in to win the Democratic nomination.

McCains in for a fight. regardless of who Obama picks to run with

Alot tougher fight then I think alot of people are expecting.
the Classic old bull vs young bull fight.

He has several things going for him McCain simply doesnt
He's got that message of hope. Doesnt matter if he can produce what he's promising.
Dont underestimate the positive message
Alot of people didnt know if Regan could produce on his message of hope either.
But he put it forth in such a way that people beleived him. He presented hope Obama is doing the same.
Remember that line in Pale Rider "You give them hope and they'll be dug in deeper then ticks on a hound."

McCain may have experience. But that may work against him. Again people are tired of the republican "experience"
Remember the Bush "dream team"?
I wouldnt be surprised if that gets some play if McCain tries using the experience card

Obama has youth. People can identify with Obama. They see the latest style
Your Average person simply cant Identify with McCain.
To your average person he just looks like a weak old man from an era that most people would just rather forget about.

Mccain has at best, a fighters chance. but much of it depends on things he cant control. The economy, Gas prices, and Iraq and Iran situation.
Anything less then a drastic change on 2 of the 3 issues and Mccain looses.

The only other way I see him as having a chance is if he very vocally distances himself andrabidly turns on the current administration.
He's GOT to present himself as the anti Bush republican...while still remaining a republican.



« Last Edit: June 03, 2008, 10:28:58 PM by DREDIOCK »
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