Re: Rangoon, '42 is the next scenario (estimated to run later in June, 2008)

[Krusty]

I was wondering about the A6M5s but didn't know their date of operations.

However it's tweaked, I'm stoked to be in it, but hey if we can tweak it for the better, I'd love it even more.

[Brooke]

This is a completely hypothetical plane set right?

Not completely, but goodly parts of it are, yes -- I hear you and understand.  Reasons why are discussed in detail in the "Reasons for Various Aspects of Rules" section, in the "Aircraft Set Overall" subsection:

"In real life in this period in Burma (late 1941 to early 1942), the Japanese pushed the allied air forces out of Burma. Then the allies came and took it back starting late 1943 and early 1944. In this first period, the IJAF had Ki-21 Sally bombers (60th, 12th, 98th Sentai), Ki-43 Hayabusa fighters (64th Sentai, etc.), Ki-27 Nate fighters, and some other types of lower performance. They didn't have Betties, Zeros or Dinahs. Likewise, the allied forces had P-40B's (AVG 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Sqdn), Hurricane Mk IIa's (RAF 17 and 135 Sqdn and 1 other), and F2A Buffaloes (RAF 67 Sqdn). They didn't have P-40E's, F4F's, Spitfires, or Beaufighters.

Perhaps a mix of aircraft that would be more-historically accurate would be P-40B's, Hurricane Mk I's, and F4F-3's (with 4 guns, as a good fit for the F2A, actually -- see America's Hundred Thousand for a comparison of F2A vs. F4F) for the allied forces (with the ratio of P-40's:Hurris:Buffaloes being 1:1:0.333) and Ju 88's (as the best fit for the Ki-21), A6M2's (for Ki-43's), and D3A's (for Ki-27's) for the Japanese forces (with the ratio of A6M2:D3A being 1:1). However, historically, the IJAF forces drastically outnumbered the allied forces, so if these more-realistic aircraft were used (where IJAF fighters are much worse than allied fighters), we'd also need more-realistic side balance with the IJAF probably having, say, 3-5 times as many players as the allied side. DoK, the original designer, picked more-contemporary aircraft and more-even player numbers. We're keeping it that way (1) because changing as described above would be a major change, requiring redesigning the scoring conditions, experimenting with side balance and playability, etc. and (2) because this scenario is already delayed compared to our originally desired schedule. Maybe in the future version, we'll try a more-historically accurate mix of aircraft."

[Brooke]

I'll let folks know as soon as the Rangoon forums are open.

The Rangoon forums are open.

Rangoon 2008 General (open to everyone -- don't post confidential info there)
Rangoon 2008 Allied Command (for allied command staff only)
Rangoon 2008 Allied General (for all allied players)
Rangoon 2008 Axis Command (for axis command staff only)
Rangoon 2008 Axis General (for all axis players)

CO's, Roscoroo has moderator privileges (to invite people).  If you have a request to give someone admittance privileges, Roscoroo is the one to contact.

[ROC]

This event ran in I think 04.  It was a success, and very popular and hard fought event.  There was probably the least griping involved as it progressed.

Not really seeing a need to fix what ain't broken.

[angelsandair]

Shouldn't we get the Spitfire Mk. V? Or were those not at Rangoon?

[Brooke]

Shouldn't we get the Spitfire Mk. V? Or were those not at Rangoon?

See 4 posts up.

[Widewing]

This event ran in I think 04.  It was a success, and very popular and hard fought event.  There was probably the least griping involved as it progressed.

Not really seeing a need to fix what ain't broken.

ROC, old buddy, Brooke's response was reasonable and enlightening... He shows that if time permitted, fixing the plane set would be desirable. You, on the other hand, state that it "ain't broken".

The scenario is broken in respect to not resembling anything remotely close to the actual events due to a plane set that is largely non-historical. The game advertises "participate in special events recreating scenarios from World War II." You can't recreate something that didn't actually happen. That makes it purely hypothetical, not semi-hypothetical, certainly not historical. That's fine, but it needs to set forth that way. We have players in the game who couldn't find Burma on a map, much less know what aircraft were in the fight. Thus, it should be stated that this is a "what if" scenario. You know, "what if" the Japanese Navy was involved? "What if" there existed time machines that could transport fighters back in time two years?

I'm one of those guys who believes that if there is a historical event, then use the aircraft that best allows it to be historical. I'm not sure why the plane set was picked when the scenario first ran. I suspect it was to get more people to participate.

My bottom line: It was and still is a FUBAR plane set. It's apparently too late to fix it. However, seeing as it probably won't run again for another 4 years, there's time to correct it before the next go around. Hell, I'll even help if you want.

My regards,

Widewing

[Serenity]

We have players in the game who couldn't find Burma on a map, much less know what aircraft were in the fight.

I cannot tell you how embarassed I am to admit this, but as I never really read up on the CBI theatre, I am one of those players

[whiteman]

Only because of my grandpa the first thing i new about WWII was the AVG and the "HUMP".

[Serenity]

Actually, it just so happens I have a world map next to my comp., and I found Burma!!! Its now Myanmar!

[ROC]

My bottom line: It was and still is a FUBAR plane set. It's apparently too late to fix it. However, seeing as it probably won't run again for another 4 years, there's time to correct it before the next go around. Hell, I'll even help if you want.

Hi Buddy

After working up the Midway event and shelving it due to last minute issues, we chose to run an existing event because we were behind in running a scenario.  This one was a success, a huge one, as built.  It ain't broke because it was popular and worked on many levels other than the plane to plane matchup or exact historical accuracy.  Now, in 4 years, sure there is ample time to rebuild this one and come up with a completely new and historical element to the event, we might even have new planes.  My comments were simply not this time, we run it as it is, tried, tested, verified, because of a timeline, and heading off a movement to redesign an event that is now underway.  If Brooke wants to sub a plane or two, he is more than welcome to do it, I'm suggesting last minute subs into a proven design might just create unintended consequences.

Love to have you on this rebuild though, your detail is always welcome.

[Fencer51]

Hi Buddy

After working up the Midway event and shelving it due to last minute issues..

 

[ROC]

hehe  I love that banner 

[VansCrew1]

What are the plane sets?

[ROC]

The planes are in the event design writeup.