NOBALL - Snapshot results

[Duckwing6]

Frame Scoring:
Participants:
Allies: 21 57%
Axis:   16 43%
(note the design called for a 60 / 40 split)

Allies:

Enemy Aircraft destroyed: 7 = 52,5
All Targets Bombed:         = 60,0
2 Targets totaly destroyed: = 40,0
1 Target slightly damaged:  =  5,0

TOTAL: = 157,5 Points

Axis:

Enemy Aircraft destroyed: 17 = 170 Points

Total : = 170

The frame is a marginal Victory for the Luftwaffe which succeeded to destroy almost all enemy aircraft but wasn't able to prevent the enemy from anhilating 2 V-Weapon launch sites and damagaing the third one. The attack on V45 was an especially bold NOE run <S>!

Regardless of score:

BIG <S> to ALL PARTICIPANTS !!

And Thanks to Dogftr (Axis CO) and Jimbear (Allied CO).

I hope you all had fun and i see you all at the next SNAPSHOT !

Duckwing6
CM

[Baddawg]

It was an excellent event.
Thanks to  you Duck and all the participants.< Salute >

[LLv34_Camouflage]

Anyone care to post an AAR or two?  

Camo

[nonoht]

You want my AAR camo ?

i flew 109G6
2 kills
2 assists

landed succesfully

[Ripsnort]

My personal record was:
1 kill
2 assists
2 destroyed AA

~Attendance-Flight Group 1:FL:Betown-Apache,Ripsnort,Sultan,Nash.

~A/C-Ordnance: P47-25 100% fuel, Center DT, 2k bombs.

~Mission overview-Mission was to jabo V44 .

~Action Report:BeTown lead the formation of 5 into attack mode at 2000 feet for a high speed, low level run on V44.  Escort was in sight, but at a very high altitude.  Unfortunatley, our group of P47's got about 5 miles AHEAD of escort, thus exposing us to enemy A/C before  escort was on station.

First pass enemy destroyed 2 of 5 A/C in formation, after the melee that followed, 3 A/C were able  to get to target and release, V44 was destroyed.  Egress, again, the 3 remaining A/C were destroyed, I personally had to fight my way home, only to eventually get overwhelmed by 3 enemy (6 contacted during egress, managed to down one A/C)

Following targets were destroyed with 5 losses to our flight group
-(1) VH
-(2) AA
               

Total targets hit: 15
Total A/C losses :100%

~Conclusion:  Escort should have been alittle lower at our altitude, and we  should have not placed ourselves 5 miles IN FRONT of escorting A/C.  The 3 that made it to target destoyed target 100%.

A fine snapshot, loads of fun, <S> all that participated.

------------------
Ripsnort(-rip1-)
=CO= VMF-323 ~Death Rattlers~
"Know your limits and then go beyond.."
Click here for VMF-323 Death Rattlers info
Click here for 15th Panzer info
 
I spare no class or cult or  creed,
My course is endless through the year.
I bow all heads and break all hearts,
All owe homage-I am Fear.
-------------General Patton

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 09-18-2000).]

[Nash]

I had an incredible time in this one. Getting bounced by both the 109 and 190 groups as we flew NOE with 2 1000lbers and a droptank was slightly nerve wracking.

After maybe 3-5 minutes of intense fighting it occcured to me that perhaps I better duck out of there, let the escorts do their job, and get back to doing mine.

I made it to V44, and since Rip had cleared the ack, it was an easy time downing the hangar. Ended up augering though hehe.

Had a blast, as usual. <S> all that were there.

[LLv34_Camouflage]

Great AAR's, thanks guys.  Especially nono, the man of great words.      LOL

Seems like the LW was victorious once again.  What happened after the V-field was levelled?  How did the allied escorts do?

Camo

------------------
Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
 www.muodos.fi/LLv34

Brewster into AH!

"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."

[Nash]

Allied escorts?! We had ESCORTS??!!

Heh, just kiddin'.  My guess though is that they uh, didn't fare all that well  

Tactics-wise, taken what Rip said re the seperation between escorts and Jabo,  I'd have done this:

- Sent the escorts out in front, med-low alt, and had them engage the LW.

- The 47's I'd have sent in at hi-alt, with a shallow dive to target.... behind the escorts.

The 47's would be able to simply blow through any opposition, and there's no way they'd be caught before they reached the target. Additionally, they would be free to re-engage the remaining LW without the extra 2,300 pound ordinance burden.

[Nash]

Hmm... this leads to another discussion... and I apologize for hijacking the thread here...

In my expereince, the most effective way to protect your bombers is to have the escorts fly well out ahead and tangle the opposition up before the buffs are even within' visual. Tight escort formations (above and slightly behind being the most efective) seem to be way less effective and do little to protect them from fatal slashing attacks.

I know it's not historic, but online I've seen a bunch of variations, and nothing seems to beat having the enemy quashed before the buffs are even on scene.

So... What are your thoughts on this? What has worked for you?

[Duckwing6]

Well 1 problem i saw was that the USAF DID get tangled up when they should have just blown thru and run .. the Escorts could have mixed it up but the JABOS should have went right on with their run , released and turned tail for a) home or b) alt and reengage

AS for the planeset i think any USAF was faster flat out than the LW... (without ordnance that is ..)

it's just a matter of tactics  

DW6

[Ripsnort]

Duck, if we had 'blown right thru' to the target, none would have hit the target, we had 6 109 on us, 2 of us were downed immediately, thats why we had to turn into them, or we would have all been destroyed since our escort was still very high, and engaged with yet higher 109's.

Nash, I agree with your post-mission assessment, I always use escort in a BARCAP format within -323 when we use it, its very effective, and loose goose formation for escort too, no 'tight' formation around fighter/bombers  due to the potential of slashing attacks.

Hey, for guys that don't fly together all the time,everyone did the best he could, lots of fun.

[Baddawg]

This one certainly was a fun engagement.
  Sometimes war is just the luck of the draw.
 My strat was to protect 44 and 42 ,leaving 45 basically undefended. 1 fighter was assigned to 45 to harrass and delay the enemy with orders to stay alive.
Our 190s took off from a base close to where the main allied force was met. Our 109s on the other hand flew north  coming around base 45 getting maximum altitude.
 The 190s had spotted the main force ,at just the time when our 109 main force was within striking distance.
 When the 190s engaged, the 109s were soon lending a hand. 2 of us remained high. The kill buffer sealed the decision for me. Once I saw GAF kill credits  I knew we had a far superior numerical advantage with the majority of our force hitting the largest faction of the splintered allied force.Drill and I proceded to V44 where we spotted two low  p47s 1 was shot down  1 looked as if was going to bug out. Here I made a big mistake and seperated from Drill to help Kaitsu who was defending  v45 alone.
 Kaitsu as per orders was singularly harrassing  the raid on  v45 3 vs 1. I arrived
to lend a hand,as did another 109  Nonoht I think it was ,which resulted in  2 of the 47s being downed and the 3rd  left the fight.


Interestingly enough had  the kill  buffer been different  by just a slight bit  . My decision would have changed. The high cover package would have dove  to lend assistance and 44 would have been totally without support. Kaitsu  alone at 45  could at best only harrassed  the inevitable allied sweep down from 45 to 44 which  would have met up with the other 2 plane element  that  was there.

So from my standpoint   I saw that luck certainly fell on the GAF side. Pilot skills certainly were  a factor as well. Kaitsu's  standoff at 45 stands out in my mind . But for the luck of being at the right place at the right time,was the edge that gave GAF the win IMO.

[Betown]

To be honest there was no way we could blow right through. That was my original idea that didn't work. The 109's came down from about 15k I think and had an E package the size of Britian. There was no way that the whole P47 group could all survive or engage the 109's without escort. BARCAP would have been the best bet. But we all live and learn. We managed to destroy our target but we did take heavy losses. Those of  you in my flight who faught on right untill the end I feel obliged to salute. You guys did good. I would be happy to fly with any of you any time.

In conclusion, I think that if we could have just got the escort sorted out then we could have made it a success. But no problems. We all had fun RIGHT?  

<S>
BT

[Nash]

Damn straight Betown! Had a blast, and I'd fly fer ya again inna second. <S>

[Ripsnort]

"Scenes from Group 1 as it naps the earth enroute to target area A44"

"BANDITS !! BREAK! BREAK! BREAK!"[/i]