An experiment with trim

[HomeBoy]

As you may know, about two years ago, I modified my CH Pro Throttle to include analog trim wheels (see this thread for a description) for elevator, aileron, and rudder:


In fact, I have not enabled Combat Trim even once since I started using analog trim.  It makes flying planes like the KI-84 a real joy.

About six months ago, I bought Leo Bodnar's Precision USB Joystick Controller BU0836.  I've been wanting to find the time to install it in my PT because this controller has a 10-bin A/D converter in it instead of the 8-bit version found in almost every game controller (CH, Saitek, etc) you can buy.  I was really curious to see if the extra two bits of resolution (1024 vrs 256) would be noticeable.  I am a bit disappointed (though not surprised) to report that I can tell NO difference at all between the 10-bit and the 8-bit ADC.  I only play two games (Aces High and FSX) and I can tell absolutely no advantage with the 10-bit ADC.  I'm sure if you were using some hi-tech medical control software or something, you'd benefit from the extra resolution.  But not with the games we tend to play.

I guess I have bragging rights but little else.   

[NHawk]

Shhhhh... Don't tell anyone but, analog trim is one of the reasons I use my Saitek throttle with my CH Stick.

Edit: Interesting thought. Put that USB controller into the Saitek throttle and dump the stick that now sits uselessly behind my monitor to use the throttle.

[HomeBoy]

Several of us have been begging CH to put some pots in their throttles for a long time.  They are just sooo conservative.   

Two of us do trim wheel mods for the PT (the other fella is Ghost with his Franken-Potato) and we generate enough business that ought to tell them there is a demand but still they don't do anything.  I understand that it's a tough business and they definitely have the longevity.  Still, I wish they'd take a chance once in a while.   

...
 Interesting thought. Put that USB controller into the Saitek throttle and dump the stick that now sits uselessly behind my monitor to use the throttle.

Oh my, I see a monster rising up!   

Leo's board is an excellent controller though and well worth the $45 (after shipping) he gets for them.  If you get really inspired, you can line the back of your throttle with a bunch of switches too!

[Ack-Ack]

Two of us do trim wheel mods for the PT (the other fella is Ghost with his Franken-Potato) and we generate enough business that ought to tell them there is a demand but still they don't do anything.  I understand that it's a tough business and they definitely have the longevity.  Still, I wish they'd take a chance once in a while.   

Having worked for CH I can tell you the reason.  The molds are the reason why.  It would make them create new molds for the PT and that is something they will not do because of the cost associated with fabricating new molds.  Even though you generate enough business to maybe research the possibility of doing it, Chuck probably feels the costs associated with it or the demand isn't enough to warrant doing it. 

ack-ack

[HomeBoy]

Having worked for CH I can tell you the reason.  The molds are the reason why.  It would make them create new molds for the PT and that is something they will not do because of the cost associated with fabricating new molds.  Even though you generate enough business to maybe research the possibility of doing it, Chuck probably feels the costs associated with it or the demand isn't enough to warrant doing it. 

ack-ack

Yes, I understand that ack-ack.  Debby and I have had this discussion more than a few times.     Believe me, I know the costs involved in the molding.  I priced out doing aluminum injection molds for the lefty-HOTAS and you have to be sitting down when you get the quote.  Doing the trims though would not require a new mold, just some inserts which I don't believe would be too very expensive.  I think what they want to do though is go in some new directions.  I respect that but it is frustrating.  Every Tom, Dick, and Harry have their ideas about what CH should do.  They can't listen to all of us.   

I hope I haven't come across like I'm griping.  I haven't meant to.  It's just a frustration is all.  To be honest with you, Debby et. al. are frustrated about this sort of thing too as they would like to be able to do more than they do.  It's a very tough business as you know and when you see all these game controller companies come and go and CH remains through the years, you know they understand what it takes to stay alive.

[Reschke]

Molds are a super high dollar item. We have to spread the cost of ours across tens of thousands of parts just to pay for them and the ones we are dealing with are not metal since we are pouring molten iron into the mold in order to make a simple 24 inch long 90 degree elbow.

[Masherbrum]

....nevermind.    I thought this was about something else.   

[Tigger29]

Uh-oh.. looks like the seal is broken.  Your warranty is voided!

As you may know, about two years ago, I modified my CH Pro Throttle to include analog trim wheels (see this thread for a description) for elevator, aileron, and rudder:
(Image removed from quote.)

In fact, I have not enabled Combat Trim even once since I started using analog trim.  It makes flying planes like the KI-84 a real joy.

About six months ago, I bought Leo Bodnar's Precision USB Joystick Controller BU0836.  I've been wanting to find the time to install it in my PT because this controller has a 10-bin A/D converter in it instead of the 8-bit version found in almost every game controller (CH, Saitek, etc) you can buy.  I was really curious to see if the extra two bits of resolution (1024 vrs 256) would be noticeable.  I am a bit disappointed (though not surprised) to report that I can tell NO difference at all between the 10-bit and the 8-bit ADC.  I only play two games (Aces High and FSX) and I can tell absolutely no advantage with the 10-bit ADC.  I'm sure if you were using some hi-tech medical control software or something, you'd benefit from the extra resolution.  But not with the games we tend to play.

I guess I have bragging rights but little else.   

[HomeBoy]

Uh-oh.. looks like the seal is broken.  Your warranty is voided!

Darn Tigger, NOW you tell me!

[Ack-Ack]

Yes, I understand that ack-ack.  Debby and I have had this discussion more than a few times.     Believe me, I know the costs involved in the molding.  I priced out doing aluminum injection molds for the lefty-HOTAS and you have to be sitting down when you get the quote.  Doing the trims though would not require a new mold, just some inserts which I don't believe would be too very expensive.  I think what they want to do though is go in some new directions.  I respect that but it is frustrating.  Every Tom, Dick, and Harry have their ideas about what CH should do.  They can't listen to all of us.   

I hope I haven't come across like I'm griping.  I haven't meant to.  It's just a frustration is all.  To be honest with you, Debby et. al. are frustrated about this sort of thing too as they would like to be able to do more than they do.  It's a very tough business as you know and when you see all these game controller companies come and go and CH remains through the years, you know they understand what it takes to stay alive.

I know exactly where you are coming from.  When I was still there, a couple of us had gotten together to figure out how we can get rid of our surplus stock of I-Force 1x boards that we used in the Force FX stick.  We took a CH Racing Wheel, removed the board inside and replaced it with one of the surplus I-Force boards and created CH's first force feedback racing wheel.  We showed it to Chuck, tested it out on all the driving games that supported FF and even though it was a jerry rigged proto-type using an old I-Force 1x board, it superior to MS's racing wheel using I-Force 2.x boards.  Even a marketing study showed that it would have mostly likely been a successful product but it was rejected out of hand.


ack-ack

[NHawk]

...

Oh my, I see a monster rising up!   

Leo's board is an excellent controller though and well worth the $45 (after shipping) he gets for them.  If you get really inspired, you can line the back of your throttle with a bunch of switches too!

Oh make no mistake...the monster is wide awake now. 

Right after I looked at the board, I looked at the throttle I have taken apart on the floor to my left and bells started ringing. First step is to see if the connector is a game port or not. If it is, adding the board is an option. If it's not, totally replacing the existing board is the other option.