Author Topic: Perk System: Popularity vs Quality (Pyro?)  (Read 337 times)

Offline Apache

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Perk System: Popularity vs Quality (Pyro?)
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2001, 06:18:00 PM »
Not taken personal Wingnut. Thanks for the caveat   .
No personal attack here as well.

Networks are my profession. I know them inside and out. I won't bore everyone with details, but net lag is an inherent part of internet gaming. I won't get into a debate as to what one see's on their fe's but I suggest testing be done if you're curious or care. I've tested here and in the other game as well. Far, far more than any 150. Heck, after years of online flight sims, you would think I could shoot better, knowing the lag affect as I do, lol.

Urban legend? Nope. Applied logic.

Sorry about the hijack cavey.

Back to our regulary scheduled program.

[This message has been edited by Apache (edited 01-16-2001).]

Offline CavemanJ

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Perk System: Popularity vs Quality (Pyro?)
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2001, 09:52:00 PM »
Jochen carrier kite or not dinnae make that much difference.  It's verra easy to land an N1K on a flat top and stop in the wires to rearm/refuel.  You can't launch it from the flattop, but you can land and launch again.

The past couple of days I've been flying the N1K2-J.  Last night, at A43, I racked up about 30 kills with only 2 deaths in an hour or a little less, and the second death came only because I rushed an attack on a B-17.  Had I played it smart I would've lived (had already killed that pilot/gunner twice).  About 8 of those kills were panzers, ostwinds, and 2 M16s.  The N1K carries to 250kg eggs, which is what, 550lbs each?  A flight of N1Ks can flatten an airfield just as quickly as a flight of -1Cs.

Pongo in another thread, for arguements sake, I treated it as though the -1C were removed from the game.  I also said I dinnae really think the pilots would move about as I said in my example.  The pilots are going to move to kites that fit the way they percieve thier fighting style.  If they want to stay with 4x20mm and they're goin for the N1K, Tiffie, or one of the 190s.  To stay in carrier ops they'll go for the -1D or hellkitty.  But other kites will start getting more use, and it is verra possible that one may reach a level of disparity comparble to the level achieved by the -1C.  I firmly believe the N1K has the potential to do so, especially if more pilots really start checking it out and seeing what it can.  I consider myself a mediocre pilot, but I can rackup kills in bad situations and fly away to land'em (see 'A sortie to remember' on the general boards).

Wingnut have you forgotten that all 3 spits, the P-38, and the tiffie also carry Mk2 Hispanos?  Tiffie is 4x20mm, but it's a small ammo load.  The spits are 2x20mm with cannon loads smaller than the tiffie, and the 38 is 1x20mm with the smallest hispano load of them all.  Do those not count?  With the guns in the nose the P-38 is a long range sniper.  Any of the above mentioned planes can take out GVs.  I once nailed 2 panzers on a strafing run as they came out of the VH while I was strafing it.  I'll look for ya while I'm in my N1K  

Now if we can keep the threadjackers away perhaps we can continue the discussion  

Offline Pongo

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Perk System: Popularity vs Quality (Pyro?)
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2001, 10:42:00 PM »
The Niki is definatly a great plane. But unless you have been sniffing gasoline excessivly since last we flew together you are better then an average pilot.  I still think it unlikly that the same numbers disarity will exist after perking the Hog C. But if everyone does go Niki then the situation will be worse. Cause there are allready lots of nikis apperently. Guess time will tell. I dont think you will ever get aggrement on ratings for aircraft to decide the issue that way, popularity and Kill to death are about all we have.

Offline Lephturn

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Perk System: Popularity vs Quality (Pyro?)
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2001, 08:13:00 AM »
Two notes about lag effects on distance estimation.

First, it is a variable.  I've seen lag discrepancies in films from 2 viewpoints from nil to 400 or so yards depending on connections and network conditions.

Second, lag is dependent on speed and closure rate.  That's why you need to leave a LOT more margin in a head-on situation than a tail chase.  If a bogey is closing on you head-on, the high closure rate will mean the number difference is larger, even if the lag time is constant.  This is why I start my HO evasive move at about D 1.4 on a nose to nose merge.  At high closure I can see as much as a 500 yard difference in ranges sometimes.  If somebody is chasing my tail but not gaining quickly, I can generally feel safe around 1.1 or so.  Depending on speed and closure, the allowance for lag in a tail chase is much lower, I usually allow for 200 or 300.  Now maybe it will be less, but it's better to be safe than... erm.. dead.  

This is why you hear folks whine about 1k shots, but you will never see a film from the shooter's perspective that shows anything out of whack.

Sorry to Hijack CavemanJ.  

I think that a self-adjusting perk system based on kills or even flights is the only way to go.  I really don't care how "good" a plane is, I just don't want to see any single plane making up 30% of the population when I go flying.  So far Pyro's perk system is the best way I've seen to keep things in check.

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"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
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Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"

Offline Wingnut_0

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Perk System: Popularity vs Quality (Pyro?)
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2001, 08:15:00 AM »
Cave, no I haven't forgotten about the other AC.  I'm just trying to line our your original question with answers, but I can't answer for everyone, only my personal experiences.

I love a good spit fight..dam exciting, but whatever the reason I've taken hits (short and long) from a spit 9 and a typhoon and I've never received the damage comparable to what a 1c does to me.  That's just personal experience.

Like I said..I tried to lay out it's "quality" as perceived by many and why those things make it over popular, hence the reason it's being perked.

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The quality of the box matters little.  Success depends upon the man who sits in it  -  Baron Manfred von Richthofen

[This message has been edited by Wingnut_0 (edited 01-17-2001).]

Offline SKurj

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Perk System: Popularity vs Quality (Pyro?)
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2001, 06:20:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by CavemanJ:
I know how, what, and why the perk system is here.  I dinnae need a buncha pompoms point out that it's to allow the super kites w/o throwing the whole balance of the arena right out the window.

Surely the popularity of the aircraft must be considered in figuring its overall quality, but why base the system solely on popularity and end up with either a type of RPS or perking all kites until we're down to just 2-3 of the least popular being "free" rides?

What makes you think any other aircraft in the current planeset will be perked?
I've yet to see an official announcement saying that even the Chog will definitely be a perk, let alone any other aircraft.

AKskurj


Offline axe

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Perk System: Popularity vs Quality (Pyro?)
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2001, 01:22:00 PM »
Cave You are perfectly right, concording with you at 100%.

I think a solution would be an historical permanent MA (p.e. Europe 39 41- or 43-44) with only planes of same theatre &   era.. but i'm afraid it's an anticonventional issue, seen the direction AH has taken  
AXE

Offline CavemanJ

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Perk System: Popularity vs Quality (Pyro?)
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2001, 06:51:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by SKurj:
What makes you think any other aircraft in the current planeset will be perked?
I've yet to see an official announcement saying that even the Chog will definitely be a perk, let alone any other aircraft.

AKskurj


Nice sublte threadjack attempt.  Grounded, 1 week  

Pyro himself has said they -1C could verra well end up perked to keep from opening the perk point spread any further.

However this discussion is about popularity based vs quality based systems for determining the multiplier/value for/of kites.  The -1C has been mentioned by name because of the disparity between it and other kites.  The N1K2-J has been mentioned specifically because it has the potential to achieve the same disparity.

Offline SKurj

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Perk System: Popularity vs Quality (Pyro?)
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2001, 11:32:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by CavemanJ:

Surely the popularity of the aircraft must be considered in figuring its overall quality, but why base the system solely on popularity and end up with either a type of RPS or perking all kites until we're down to just 2-3 of the least popular being "free" rides?


+) I didn't hijack, I just posted a reply to what you posted CJ.  Personally I see the popularity rating as a very simple yet effective rating system.  It's also one that can't be disputed, as it is backed up with solid facts.  A "quality" system I think would bring a lot of whining and complaints.  In time I'm sure it would fall into place ok, but time might mean years...  once the established community either got over it or quit.  I think you can imagine what it would be like in here for the next few months if a "quality" system was instated.
The C-Hog perk issue has created some concern that there may be other, currently available aircraft added to the perk list.  By perking the chog, HTC will only increase these concerns.  Personally I hope that if they do perk the chog, a statement to the effect of "No other current aircraft will be perked ever" from HTC would satisfy me.  I don't think we'll see the n1k increase in number to the extent of the chog, but i could be wrong.  

I think the current idea, popularity, makes a lot of sense, and speaks for itself.

AKskurj