your opinion about iraq withdrawl.

[lasersailor184]

Do what we should have done 5 years ago. Get out & put the UN Peacekeepers there to play cop.

And at the same time, doom the place to genocide as the Blue Helmets do nothing.

[midnight Target]

Declare victory and leave.

[AWMac]

Declare victory and leave.

Is that the new term for "Cut and Run"?

[rpm]

Dam RPM watta ya do to get Probation?
I thought you were one of the "Untouchables"
Like.........well I'm not naming names they know who they are.

 

Mac

First you have to think everyone understands your sense of humor...
Second, you have to forget to order Skuzzy a garlic and pepperoni pie when you think your being funny.
Third, forget that if it wouldn't air on Sesame Street it won't air here.

Good luck with that par 5!

[Ripsnort]

Here's what my Nephew had to say after 16 months there:

I think there was some confusion though as to where I was stationed, one of the people that replied thought those pictures were from the green zone in Baghdad. Truth be told I have never been to the green zone the closest I have ever been to it was BIAP (Baghdad International Airport) Most of the photos shown on that threat were taken about (XX) miles NW of the green zone.

The thing signifigant about that is that we were deep in Al Queda controlled teritory these were people who knew very little of what the U.S. intentions were. Because of that it was a major bed down location for insurgents in our area as well as a place for Al Queda members to retreat to after attacking key points in Baghdad.

Before we went to this location, a U.S. convoy could not drive more than (XXXX) meters without hitting a large deep buried Improvised explosive device, In fact a good friend of mine was lost to just such a devices 6 months prior to my unit taking over that area. Our expansion into that area would not have been possible without the surge of troops in Iraq.

Because of the surge we were able to focus on smaller previously ignored areas, and by doing so we were able to bring a group which had been one of our major enemies in the area over to our side and help us locate and defeat unreconciliable terrorist groups in our area of operations as well as areas around Baghdad, Ramadi, Fallujah, and Tarmiyah.

By eliminating these safehavens together we were effectivly able to nutralize Al Quedas ability to recoup, restock, and recruit in a major junction point into larger cities. (Sorry for the redundancy I've been talking to way too many officers in the last 15 months). Anyhow I hope this helps to clarify some of what was going on around that area the time that I was there, I know I've got alot more stories some good and some bad, and there's alot of photos I won't be posting online aswell, but I will try in the future to put more on this Myspace page I mean I did take over 2000 pictures in my last 9 months there.

[AWMac]

I hear ya RPM.

Well welcome to the Misfits. 
We all have a sense of humor here.

Workin on my swing..doing a round tonight. Neighbours request.
Free Bucket 'o Kittens...

 

Mac

[Mr No Name]

finish it in Iran and Syria....

Absolutely correct.

[SirLoin]

A long term presence is needed in Iraq.The Kurds cannot be hung out to dry once again.Pressure on Iran is also needed in case they aquire nukes(which they will).

Religious partitioning of Iraq won't work..They gotta learn to live with one another.This wedge of liberty in the Arab world, the emancipation from facist Islamic dictatorship..is what the Mullah's fear the most.(their second most fear is the liberation of women)

[68Hawk]

We are currently working on having the Iraqis stand up and take charge.  This is the only way we're going to be able to extricate ourselves over here, as democracy must be a locally brewed drink.

The IP are still shaky, and they have a nasty tendency to run when attacked, but they are starting to really pull their own too.  We have to give them a chance or its all for naught.

Anyone who believed the fools at the outset who said this would be quick are retards.  Nation building isn't quick, easy or free of messes.  It sucks over here, it sucks bad.  Its hot and there's moon dust everywhere.  I just lost my Platoon Sergeant not even a week ago, and two friends are now recovering from serious injuries.  Still, we've gotta leave the Iraqis with something or its all pointless.

Worse yet, if we just declare victory and leave, as did the soviets in Afghanistan, we open the country to civil war that will probably just foster much more extremism and rear people who want to kill us.  We have to leave this place better than we found it, for the good people's sake and for their children.  It's possible and its happening.  The strategies are working, we just need to give them time and make sure they're being followed.

Please send beer.......

[Excel1]

imo, the intent was ok, but the given justification was foggy and the timing was not good. but that's all water under the bridge. to throw in the towel now with the recently made gains after 5 years of sweat and toil doesn't make sense to me. but i'm not over there and i'm not paying$ for it. it's just an opinion.

[lazs2]

excel..  I think that you are correct.

That being said...  is it just the hate for America that is causing the civilized nations of the world to shoot themselves in the foot on this issue?

Is it just that they are so weak or greedy?  Why aren't they all banding together to help us finish this thing off once and for all and to get some stability for once in the region?   Don't they realize that this is probly the last best chance of it ever happening again?

Is is because they are all over run with muslim populations?   What?

lazs

[RTHolmes]

its cus its not their problem, why would they want to clear up the mess that the US (and to a very minor extent the UK) caused? especially since they almost universally advised against it in the first place, for all the reasons which have become apparent over the last few years.

long term its probably a good idea to have plenty of western states which arent exactly aligned with the US over this - those middle eastern states which wont talk to the US can at least have dialog with someone in the west.

[ZetaNine]

I'm amazed by the number of people....especially here....who still do not understand that one of the reasons we went there was to establish one or more permanent bases.....ala GITMO....

we're not ever leaving Iraq.... I knew that going in.

[Charon]

Hawk (who is there first hand) touches on the real issue, IMO.

We have passed the point of strategic military significance, by and large. Victory or defeat from now on will be political. I would almost say we're a spectator more than a driver of events now. The surge may work for local, temporary security but it's not a solution to the strategic problem. Nobody wants to have the surge in place for eterntiy, and at some point you have to pull out and let Iraq rule itself.

However, for that to work we have to realize that the new Govt. may be an awful lot like the one we eliminated (and not the one in the Neocon visions of Wolfiowits, Perle and Feife etc.) and be OK with that. It may not even be MUCH more accomodating of Israel or US regional policy since to be successful it has to be legitimate, which means it can't be an obvious puppet (see current Govt.). Unfortunately, allowing an appropriate political solution to develop with minimal meddling at our end is a difficult thing for us to do in the usual power circles.

So, are we smart enough to achieve a political victory?  Perhaps, but I don't have a lot of faith in Washington or the Pentagon for thinking poutside the box in such areas. Evidence doen't seem to suggest a strong appreciation for 4th Generation warfare.

Fourth Generation War is normally characterized by a “stateless” entity fighting a state. Fighting can be physically such as Hezbollah or the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam(LTTE) to use two modern examples. In this realm the 4GW entity uses all three levels of Fourth Generation War. These are the physical (actual combat; it is considered the least important), mental (the will to fight, belief in victory, etc) and moral (the most important, this includes cultural norms, etc) levels. Fighting can also be without the physical level of war. This is via non-violent means. Examples of this could be Gandhi’s opposition to the British Empire or by Martin Luther King’s marches. Both desired their factions to deescalate the conflict while the state escalates against them, the objective being to target the opponent on the moral and mental levels rather than the physical level. The state is then seen as a bully and loses support...

There are few examples of the state being effective in a 4GW conflict. The only major example is that of the British Army in Northern Ireland after the events of Bloody Sunday. A notable theorist of 4GW by the name of William Lind believes that the reason for the British being successful in that conflict was that the British Army did not use heavy weapons in that period and that the British Government forces attempted to get to know the areas involved in the conflict. Also according to Lind the British did not engage in collective punishment and desired to keep civilian casualties to a minimum. In other words they won over the population by reducing the risk of damage to civilians and their property and by getting to know the local area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_generation_warfare

I guess that if we were really on the right track for moving from a military to a hearts and mind perspective then the "we broke it we need to fix it" is something I could support for additrional years. There are SOME indications that we have recently started to shift some policy toward 4GW objectives, but others that show it's not universal. If we are just going to muddle around trying to push a square peg into a round hole for a few more years then it's hard to see it as worth it in terms of lives or wealth.

Charon

[Rich46yo]

Pulling out would be a disaster. Even that nabob Obama isn't going to pull out if he gets elected as "Nations 1st black guy".

He may say hes going to pull the troops out but he wont.

Going in was risky, being a veteran of the region myself I know, but the bottom line is we went in there to overthrow a tyrant by force and to install a functioning Democracy before we left. To leave the place now would cause all hell to break loose. Think your paying high gas prices now???

Our losses sadden me. The terrible injuries our troops are incurring sadden me. But at the same time those of us in dangerous occupations chose our lives....

Even a partial pullout for Political gain, if it makes things harder on those left behind, would be stupid. In fact Politicizing what those troops are doing is stupid. We need to spend whatever is necessary to give our troops the very best available.