P-61 BLACK WIDOW

[flyboy96]

The P-61 is becoming more popular than the B-29 because it was a great bomber because of the load it could carry far distances could easily reset a arena.

[flyboy96]

Does it matter? 

flyboy96, you should probably have posted this in the Wishlist forum.  However, there are already 2 P-61 threads in there on the first page, so... 

But still, whatever it's role, the P-61 would be a really nice aircraft to have.

<S>

Yossarian

I agree,it would be a very nice eddition.    


     (even though we couldn't use it as a night bomber or fighter,because in the game we don't get a lot of darkness)

[Engine]

addition... not eddition.

[Cthulhu]

The P-61 is becoming more popular than the B-29 because it was a great bomber because of the load it could carry far distances could easily reset a arena.

P-61 = definitive night fighter & occasional interdiction/night bomber

But i still say Aces High II should add it,it was a GREAT plane it had been equiped with radar too.

As I've stated before the SCR-720 had a range of less than 5 miles in Intercept Mode. That's less than visual range in AH now. Unless you're flying at night (which we don't) , the P-61's radar does nothing for you in AH. What's of more value is the amazing maneuverability and firepower of this big bird.

Public schools

[Motherland]

FYI 742 Black widows were built. Thats just over half as many built as the Me262.

[Bronk]

FYI 742 Black widows were built. Thats just over half as many built as the Me262.

What's your point?
For a little perspective.
The total number of Ta 152 production is not well known but it is estimated to be approximately 150 aircraft of all types including prototypes.
And yet no complains about having it ehh?

[Motherland]

What's your point?
For a little perspective.
The total number of Ta 152 production is not well known but it is estimated to be approximately 150 aircraft of all types including prototypes.
And yet no complains about having it ehh?

If we didn't have it, I would say, "ya know, it would be nice, but there are other planes we need more". Same with the 262. If we get the P61, I won't complain. The more aircraft the better. But there are other, more important aircraft that in my opinion we need first.

[Bronk]

If we didn't have it, I would say, "ya know, it would be nice, but there are other planes we need more". Same with the 262. If we get the P61, I won't complain. The more aircraft the better. But there are other, more important aircraft that in my opinion we need first.

Ahh now this I agree with.

<S>

[Ack-Ack]

Agreed, time for some early war Japanese AC.

Yep and a true early war planeset covering 1939-1940.


ack-ack

[Ack-Ack]

We also fielded nighter fighters that performed just as good, if not better than the Blackwidow.  The P-38M is an example of one.

The definitive version of the P-61 was the P-61C and it came too late in the war to see any action whatsover.


ack-ack

[Cthulhu]

We also fielded nighter fighters that performed just as good, if not better than the Blackwidow.  The P-38M is an example of one.

Performed better yes, but I bet it wasn't as effective. Night fighters don't need maneuverability as much as they need long legs, powerful radar, and devastating firepower.
so:
P-38M's range (good), P-61's range (better)
P-38M's AN/APS-6 radar (ok), P-61's SCR-720 radar (great)
P-38M's firepower (good), P-61's firepower (overwhelming)

Throw in the horrible accomodations for the radar operator in the P-38M (human pretzel) and the P-61 is the far better night fighter.

[Ack-Ack]

Performed better yes, but I bet it wasn't as effective. Night fighters don't need maneuverability as much as they need long legs, powerful radar, and devastating firepower.
so:
P-38M's range (good), P-61's range (better)
P-38M's AN/APS-6 radar (ok), P-61's SCR-720 radar (great)
P-38M's firepower (good), P-61's firepower (overwhelming)

Throw in the horrible accomodations for the radar operator in the P-38M (human pretzel) and the P-61 is the far better night fighter.

Actually, the P-38M didn't lose any appreciable performance with the addition to the AN/APS-6 radar or the addition of a 2nd crewman and was more than suitable than the P-61A as a night fighter.  Even with the improved 2250 hp R-2800-65 engines, the P-61A was slower than the P-38M at all altitudes and had a lower maximum ceiling (33,100ft for the P-61A compared to 40,000ft for the P-38M).

The British also after tests weren't impressed by the Black Widow and felt the night fighter version of the Mosquito was far better than the Black Widow.

As I mentioned earlier, the definitive version was the C model and that wasn't introduced until a couple of weeks before the war ended in the Pacific and never saw any action.


ack-ack

[Jester]

[Rino]

     I don't know..I always enjoy the "early Japanese" or "Russian planeset" snobs myself.
Any plane we get is a bonus..period.

[Cthulhu]

Actually, the P-38M didn't lose any appreciable performance with the addition to the AN/APS-6 radar or the addition of a 2nd crewman and was more than suitable than the P-61A as a night fighter.  Even with the improved 2250 hp R-2800-65 engines, the P-61A was slower than the P-38M at all altitudes and had a lower maximum ceiling (33,100ft for the P-61A compared to 40,000ft for the P-38M).

The British also after tests weren't impressed by the Black Widow and felt the night fighter version of the Mosquito was far better than the Black Widow.

As I mentioned earlier, the definitive version was the C model and that wasn't introduced until a couple of weeks before the war ended in the Pacific and never saw any action.


ack-ack

Ack-Ack,

You're throwing out more performance figures while completely missing the point. I said effectiveness, not performance. A F1 car performs a hell of a lot better than a school bus, but I wouldn't haul kids in it. Night fighters fly long missions in an unforgiving environment. Radar range and crew effectiveness are essential. The P-61 is superior on both counts.
As far as the Mossie goes, you're correct, but we were talking about the P-38M. The Brits did prefer the Mossie to the Widow. Does that surprise anyone? Keep in mind also that those Mossie Mk XVII's, XVIII's, and XIX's, as well as later models all had the SCR-720 radar from the P-61.

Night fighters aren't simply fighters that happen to fly at night. Their design requirements are completely different. Long endurance, a powerful radar to find enemy bombers, coupled with devastating firepower to take them out quickly when visibility is very poor or non-existent, are the key requirements. The Widow fills all these requirements far better than the P-38M.