Kamikazes

[Angus]

"As I've mentioned earlier, suicidal acts of bravery and valour do exist both in the East and the West, but the key difference seems to be that the former, in the form of the Kamikaze, was systematically organized and performed as a regular course of action, in sharp contrast to, let's say, the Alamo for instance, in which case individual voluntarism resulted in the fatal stand which resulted in the massacre. This difference in the prelude to the event, in which the top brass orders intentional suicide, and the soldiers following the order to its bitter end without resistance or question, seems to be what the afore mentioned 'Western way of thinking" finds most inexplicable. "

Precicely!

[Angus]

Oh, I forgot one item!
In the Japanese advance down to Singapore, they actually went through British barriers (barbed wire+machine gun nests) by simple suicide.
The front troops would sacrifice themselves on the wires while the ones advancing behind them would use their bodies to walk the wire. So a swift advance would make that kind of defence useless, - to stop such a flow there was no technology, just plain man vs man.
No doubt this is also very bad for the defender's morale...an enemy that will not stop at the door of death.
But there is a paralell. Zhukov once said something like "If my army encounters a minefield, it will cross it as if it wasn't there".....
Now this is from "above" command. I have seen many tales of induvidual acts, and there is one that I am sure you AH'ers will have fun reading
Will post later.

[bj229r]

Soviets ordered conscripts to make the mines blow up so the real soldiers could get through, ghastly commanders they were. Fascinating book by a conscript into the German army--'Guy Sajer' on the subject, (forget the title) he literally spent the whole war on the Russian front and lived

[Angus]

The Germans were more "practical", in an evil way in the mine cleaning business. They used pigs, later on Jews AFAIK. 

And the western Allies:




Much more practical

BTW, Hitler did state that a democratical state could not produce a strong/ruthless enough army (something of the meaning, not accurate words). This was AFAIK related to the U.S. after they ended up in the fight. Well, he got this handed back to him nicely when the U.S. troops stuck at Bastogne. Remember the message exchange?
German: Surrender?
US: Nuts?
German: Vot do you mean?
US: Go To Hell.

[DPQ5]

Vot do u mean
Go to hell   

[Yossarian]

The Germans were more "practical", in an evil way in the mine cleaning business. They used pigs, later on Jews AFAIK. 

And the western Allies:

(Image removed from quote.)


Much more practical

BTW, Hitler did state that a democratical state could not produce a strong/ruthless enough army (something of the meaning, not accurate words). This was AFAIK related to the U.S. after they ended up in the fight. Well, he got this handed back to him nicely when the U.S. troops stuck at Bastogne. Remember the message exchange?
German: Surrender?
US: Nuts?
German: Vot do you mean?
US: Go To Hell.

Those stupid, stupid Nazis...

I'm so glad they lost.

[glock89]

Those stupid, stupid Nazis...

I'm so glad they lost.

the Nazis are not stupid some ways they are 

[Angus]

Nono, they're stupid allright, just good at pretending to be smart 

[Squire]

"Soviets ordered conscripts to make the mines blow up so the real soldiers could get through"

The entire Red Army was conscripted, you are referring to penal battalions. The Germans had them too btw, but I would think the Soviet ones were probably worse to serve in. Essentially you were under a suspended death sentence, and to get out of it, you had to be wounded in action, or distinguish yourself, or, well, be killed.

[Angus]

D-day was close to sicide for some...planners. At some places, 80% casualties were expected, and this was known by Ike. Luckily, the darkest forecasts did not turn true.