hmmm

[captain1ma]

krusty who?? dont know any krusty in the AVA. wasnt there won in sharks tale??

[Krusty]

The real truth about the arena, and the forum is you reap the treatment you sow. [...] The arena ran regular setups where you could change sides at will for over a month before BOA.

It's sour grapes you're planting

The hell it is.

The entire point of the AvA with its SMALL NUMBERS is that you can fly whatever side you like, in historical matchups. What turned me off initially was the attitude of certain groups (not just JG54), but lately it is the overall attitude including the AvA staffers.

The POINT of the arena was to fly historical setups, not limited to ONLY flying one side ("signing up"??? Puh-LEAZE... I'll no sooner enroll in only one country in the MA than I will in AvA).

The current setup and premise is against everything the AvA was designed and set up for. We are finding unhistorical setups, fantasy-football style wishlist planesets, weather that I assume/presume is so bad that real WW2 operations would have been halted til it clears.

On top of all of that you lock a player into a single team. You're excluding almost every average-joe player you can at the benefit of the few that were talking the loudest when the AvA staff asked for off-the-wall suggestions before this whole new setup started.

These are the "sour grapes" sown, and I wasn't doing the planting.

The overall pompous holier-than-thou attitude of some folks participating in this "war" reminds me of archair squeakers in the MA screaming because people don't join their steamroller missions.

I seriously and honestly expected a more mature reaction from the AvA staffers and a more dignified approach from the AvA participants.

Instead EVERY idea that doesn't "enlist" in a side or praise them is met with harsh comments.

My AvA visiting was sporadic before. You know this. I didn't enjoy some of the "banter" as it was labeled, and some of the fights weren't too fun (this varied). However the reason I don't even log in to the AvA anymore (not even sporadically) is this "war" and the pervasive group attitude in place to drive off outsiders.

[Shifty]

The overall pompous holier-than-thou attitude of some folks participating in this "war" b]

There's the pot calling the kettel....


I seriously and honestly expected a more mature reaction from the AvA staffers and a more dignified approach from the AvA participants.

I don't blame you, sometimes setting the example helps.

Instead EVERY idea that doesn't "enlist" in a side or praise them is met with harsh comments.

Again not true. You initial post was agrressive and negative, how did you expect to be recieved?

My AvA visiting was sporadic before. You know this. I didn't enjoy some of the "banter" as it was labeled, and some of the fights weren't too fun (this varied). However the reason I don't even log in to the AvA anymore (not even sporadically) is this "war" and the pervasive group attitude in place to drive off outsiders.

The war is a temp thing. Maybe if you did start flying here and share ideas instead of just critisims... it would be worthwhile for all of us.
<S>

[Skuzzy]

Play nice gentlemen.

[33Vortex]

The hell it is.

The entire point of the AvA with its SMALL NUMBERS is that you can fly whatever side you like, in historical matchups. What turned me off initially was the attitude of certain groups (not just JG54), but lately it is the overall attitude including the AvA staffers.

The POINT of the arena was to fly historical setups, not limited to ONLY flying one side ("signing up"??? Puh-LEAZE... I'll no sooner enroll in only one country in the MA than I will in AvA).

The current setup and premise is against everything the AvA was designed and set up for. We are finding unhistorical setups, fantasy-football style wishlist planesets, weather that I assume/presume is so bad that real WW2 operations would have been halted til it clears.

On top of all of that you lock a player into a single team. You're excluding almost every average-joe player you can at the benefit of the few that were talking the loudest when the AvA staff asked for off-the-wall suggestions before this whole new setup started.

These are the "sour grapes" sown, and I wasn't doing the planting.

The overall pompous holier-than-thou attitude of some folks participating in this "war" reminds me of archair squeakers in the MA screaming because people don't join their steamroller missions.

I seriously and honestly expected a more mature reaction from the AvA staffers and a more dignified approach from the AvA participants.

Instead EVERY idea that doesn't "enlist" in a side or praise them is met with harsh comments.

My AvA visiting was sporadic before. You know this. I didn't enjoy some of the "banter" as it was labeled, and some of the fights weren't too fun (this varied). However the reason I don't even log in to the AvA anymore (not even sporadically) is this "war" and the pervasive group attitude in place to drive off outsiders.

The difference here, seems to be, that you are not really discussing in a friendly, positive manner. Something that could be fruitful and perhaps lead to a change in the arena which you would perhaps enjoy. Instead, you come in here, not a regular player, and piss all over something that you apparently didn't care about just weeks before. It doesn't make sense.

What rights do you think you have to come here and tell everyone how the AvA is supposed to be, or what it was originally intended to be? That is your opinion and your opinion only. You are free to express your opinion, but do so in a friendly manner or nobody will listen to you and it will be labeled as "whining".

If you want any type of change, work with people instead of against them. Just a piece of advice. 

[Shifty]

Play nice gentlemen.

CC. 

[Slash27]

The hell it is.

The entire point of the AvA with its SMALL NUMBERS is that you can fly whatever side you like, in historical matchups. What turned me off initially was the attitude of certain groups (not just JG54), but lately it is the overall attitude including the AvA staffers.

The POINT of the arena was to fly historical setups, not limited to ONLY flying one side ("signing up"??? Puh-LEAZE... I'll no sooner enroll in only one country in the MA than I will in AvA).

The current setup and premise is against everything the AvA was designed and set up for. We are finding unhistorical setups, fantasy-football style wishlist planesets, weather that I assume/presume is so bad that real WW2 operations would have been halted til it clears.

On top of all of that you lock a player into a single team. You're excluding almost every average-joe player you can at the benefit of the few that were talking the loudest when the AvA staff asked for off-the-wall suggestions before this whole new setup started.

These are the "sour grapes" sown, and I wasn't doing the planting.

The overall pompous holier-than-thou attitude of some folks participating in this "war" reminds me of archair squeakers in the MA screaming because people don't join their steamroller missions.

I seriously and honestly expected a more mature reaction from the AvA staffers and a more dignified approach from the AvA participants.

Instead EVERY idea that doesn't "enlist" in a side or praise them is met with harsh comments.

My AvA visiting was sporadic before. You know this. I didn't enjoy some of the "banter" as it was labeled, and some of the fights weren't too fun (this varied). However the reason I don't even log in to the AvA anymore (not even sporadically) is this "war" and the pervasive group attitude in place to drive off outsiders.

Unless "Krusty" is not your in game ID, you have not flown in the AvA in 2008. Its really hard to to take any of what you are posting  seriously when the only time you interact here is to come tell us how miserable we make for you when you dont even fly in the arena. Seems to me you came in here to stir the pot so you could talk down to these people for whatever reasons. So saying you do not log in because of the "war" is a bit hard to believe.   Seems like you are trolling to me but I have been wrong more than once. If I am missing your point I am more than willing to meet you in arena some time and we work it out in the tower one evening.

[E25280]

Slash, I think it is Krusty1 -- but anyhoo --

Have to say I agree with Krusty to an extent.  The whole choosing a side thing excludes the occasional / casual flyer to the extent that there is no reason to "just show up" in the arena anymore. 

Me, for instance.  You will not find that I have flown at all this tour.  It isn't because I haven't tried to show up, it is because when I have visited the AvA, I have not managed to exit the tower.  I show up, ask what I can do to help, and am met with chirping crickets.  One helpful soul the last time told me to ask Oaktree.  I sent him a PM asking what I could do, since an answer on country was not forthcoming from him -- he must have either been busy or AFK, because he didn't reply to any of my PMs, either.

Not to be deterred, I decided I would just up and head for the nearest Dar Bar, only to find ABSOLUTELY NO PLANES AVAILABLE within two sectors of the single red dar bar.  I could have sat in a field gun and hoped an enemy showed up, I suppose, but that isn't exactly an exciting time for me.

Don't get me wrong, I understand there are quite a few people who like the current set up . . . but since my playing time has always been more limited than most of the regulars, and the fact I have always tried to switch to the lowest side in the AvA, "picking a side" and getting involved in the "war" as it is just does not interest me.  Moreover, because there is no "pick-up-game" per se, there is really no reason for me to go in at all anymore.

Not that anyone cares what I think, but thought I would throw in my $0.02 anyway.

[Shifty]

Don't get me wrong, I understand there are quite a few people who like the current set up . . . but since my playing time has always been more limited than most of the regulars, and the fact I have always tried to switch to the lowest side in the AvA, "picking a side" and getting involved in the "war" as it is just does not interest me.  Moreover, because there is no "pick-up-game" per se, there is really no reason for me to go in at all anymore.

Not that anyone cares what I think, but thought I would throw in my $0.02 anyway.

No people do care and your opinion does matter. Your comments are exactly what needs to heard. The idea isn't to alienate anybody as far as I know. The best bet is to keep people coming back regardless of how much time they have to fly. The AVA doesn't need to be an exclusive club and it won't last if it tries to be one.

[Slash27]

Slash, I think it is Krusty1 -- but anyhoo --

Have to say I agree with Krusty to an extent.  The whole choosing a side thing excludes the occasional / casual flyer to the extent that there is no reason to "just show up" in the arena anymore. 

Me, for instance.  You will not find that I have flown at all this tour.  It isn't because I haven't tried to show up, it is because when I have visited the AvA, I have not managed to exit the tower.  I show up, ask what I can do to help, and am met with chirping crickets.  One helpful soul the last time told me to ask Oaktree.  I sent him a PM asking what I could do, since an answer on country was not forthcoming from him -- he must have either been busy or AFK, because he didn't reply to any of my PMs, either.

Not to be deterred, I decided I would just up and head for the nearest Dar Bar, only to find ABSOLUTELY NO PLANES AVAILABLE within two sectors of the single red dar bar.  I could have sat in a field gun and hoped an enemy showed up, I suppose, but that isn't exactly an exciting time for me.

Don't get me wrong, I understand there are quite a few people who like the current set up . . . but since my playing time has always been more limited than most of the regulars, and the fact I have always tried to switch to the lowest side in the AvA, "picking a side" and getting involved in the "war" as it is just does not interest me.  Moreover, because there is no "pick-up-game" per se, there is really no reason for me to go in at all anymore.

Not that anyone cares what I think, but thought I would throw in my $0.02 anyway.

What Shifty said. We do care or we would not mess with it and the more input the better. I can understand how you feel about the war and it goes without saying if we continue to run set ups like this it is going to need tweaking. This place is here for you guys so give us feedback.

[Oldman731]

Not that anyone cares what I think, but thought I would throw in my $0.02 anyway.

(slaps Brauno with a slimy fish)

Would you give us a break here, please?  You're one of the old guard, your opinions are valued and, more to the point, expected.

Fork and Soda and Slash have been driving themselves senseless trying to make this war thing work.  Some of their idea have been great.  Some, perhaps not.  We're all feeling our way through this, trying to figure out what works and what doesn't.  The feedback is essential, as opposed to the "I hate it so I'm never coming back" bowl of offal.  Keep the useful critiques coming, please.

Please.

- oldman

[Dichotomy]

posted mine in the axis forum Old.. be happy to pm it to you if you like

[E25280]

(slaps Brauno with a slimy fish)

Would you give us a break here, please?  You're one of the old guard, your opinions are valued and, more to the point, expected.

Fork and Soda and Slash have been driving themselves senseless trying to make this war thing work.  Some of their idea have been great.  Some, perhaps not.  We're all feeling our way through this, trying to figure out what works and what doesn't.  The feedback is essential, as opposed to the "I hate it so I'm never coming back" bowl of offal.  Keep the useful critiques coming, please.

Please.

- oldman

Thanks OM, Slash and Shifty.



(Anyone know how to get stinky fish smell off of you?)

[humble]

Here's my "issue"...and yes I flew in the AvA just last week.

As an occasional player in the AvA I'm not side specific and all I want to do is go to the side with the lowest #'s (which was axis every time I was there). What I found (which may not be 100% accurate) is very few "frontline" bases with a fighter of any kind that was competitive. Basically a few with 109F's 1 with the 110 and another with 190A8/F8. What i've seen from both sides is mini milkrun hording with very little real fighting and significant imbalance in planeset and apparent distribution. Now in reality I'm pretty partial to the 109F so it wasnt a really big deal except that invariably I couldnt up near a fight. From memory I flew 2 hops in the 109F and had 1 pretty nice fight, 1 hop in a 110 where I locked up and CTD for some reason and then 1 in a 190 since it was the only thing I could get to the fight without flying half the map.

My questions here are simple, the luftwaffe never had a shortage of planes....ever, it had a shortage of pilots. While certain planes like the 109K/152/262 would be rarer and carefully deployed a baseline deployment of some flavor of 109's and/or A5/190D would seem to be reasonable. As a further comment the air starts are bush league IMO.

From my admittedly limited perspective it appears that you've created "strategic pork wars" and actually made defending (for axis at least) much more difficult then historically accurate. Given the limited fields, limited planeset and minimal DAR range its basically "milk run central" from what I saw.

[Shifty]

Here's my "issue"...and yes I flew in the AvA just last week.

As an occasional player in the AvA I'm not side specific and all I want to do is go to the side with the lowest #'s (which was axis every time I was there). What I found (which may not be 100% accurate) is very few "frontline" bases with a fighter of any kind that was competitive. Basically a few with 109F's 1 with the 110 and another with 190A8/F8. What i've seen from both sides is mini milkrun hording with very little real fighting and significant imbalance in planeset and apparent distribution. Now in reality I'm pretty partial to the 109F so it wasnt a really big deal except that invariably I couldnt up near a fight. From memory I flew 2 hops in the 109F and had 1 pretty nice fight, 1 hop in a 110 where I locked up and CTD for some reason and then 1 in a 190 since it was the only thing I could get to the fight without flying half the map.

My questions here are simple, the luftwaffe never had a shortage of planes....ever, it had a shortage of pilots. While certain planes like the 109K/152/262 would be rarer and carefully deployed a baseline deployment of some flavor of 109's and/or A5/190D would seem to be reasonable. As a further comment the air starts are bush league IMO.

From my admittedly limited perspective it appears that you've created "strategic pork wars" and actually made defending (for axis at least) much more difficult then historically accurate. Given the limited fields, limited planeset and minimal DAR range its basically "milk run central" from what I saw.

It's the war thing Humble. This was the first time it has been run in this format. Yes there were decidely few late war German rides on the front line bases. The CO for each side purchased aircraft based on his sides batle plan. Like I said this is the first time in this format, all kinds of things to work out yet. Keep trying the folks running the thing are making improvements.
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