Static Views

[Minotaur]

Sorry for the length of this post.  I could not express these ideas simpler and ensure they were clearly understood.  

Regarding snap views currently in AH.  When a view is selected the key must be held down for the view to remain in use.  IE:  Pressing and holding KP4 gives Left view.  Releasing KP4 gives and returns back to FrontHome view.

Additionallly any view can be modified one time.  IE:  Pressing and holding KP4 then pressing and holding KP5 gives LeftUp view.

The mechanics of this are in the way the game reads key presses and key releases.  IE:  The view is held after a "key pressed code" is recieved.  Then reset after a "key released code" is received.

Thrustmaster gear easily allows this to be done via the use of RAW codes in programed macros.  So instead of the requirement to press and hold a switch, the switch can just be pressed once, sending only a key pressed code and the view stays.

This key pressed code must be reset and is easily done via the use of another macro.  IE: Reseting a view that has not been set has no effect.  Basically this means pressing all the keys on KP really fast via the use of a macro.  This resets any and all of the key pressed codes.  

For views that are used often a ViewReset is sent first, then the key pressed code(s) is sent.  IE: So for a FrontUP view.  First a ViewReset is sent, which sends key presses and key releases for every key on the KP.  This resets any prior view in use.  Then the key press codes KP8 and KP5 are sent.  The view FrontUp is now in use and the view will stay until reset.

This is a little hassle to set up, and the only programable joystick,that I am aware of, that can do this is a Thrustmaster.  

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Suggestion: Allow views to be selected and remain in use until the view is reset or another view is selected.

Method of suggestion 1: Make views static by not acknowledging the "key released code".  This would require the use of one "master reset key" as part of the program code.  The function of the master reset key would be to send reset codes very quickly for all the view keys.  The master reset could default to the Home key.

Examples:

• KP4 then KP8 --> FrontLeft then Home --> FrontHome
• KP3 --> BackRight then Home --> FrontHome
• KP2 then KP5 --> FrontUp then Home then KP5 --> Up then Home then KP8 then KP5 --> FrontUp

Method of suggestion 2:  Make views togglable and re-selectable.  This means two things.  

• If a view is selected and the key for that view is pressed again the view is reset to Home.  
• If a view is selected and then another view is selected the view switches to the one most recently selected.  

Examples  

• KP4 --> Left then KP4 --> FrontHome
• KP8 --> Front then KP8 --> FrontHome  
• KP4 --> Left then KP6 --> Right
• KP4 --> Left then KP8 Front
• KP4 --> Left then Home <Home Key> --> FrontHome

Modifying views in the up or down direction for method of suggestion 2:  Currently the directional views provided by the keypad allow any view along the horizontal axis, 8 views total.  To modify a view in the up or down direction would require the use of 2 special keys, the CTRL and ALT.  CTRL would select an Up function and ALT would select a down.

Examples:

• CTRL+ KP8 --> FrontUP
• CTRL + KP7 --> FrontLeftUP
• ALT + KP1 --> LeftBackDown

Selecting views in the up or down direction for method of suggestion 2:  Single unmodified views for up and down would use KP5 and KP0.  For these two view keys no modification could be allowed.  IE:  All keys except the designated view keys for Up and Down could be modified using CTRL and ALT.

Examples:

• ALT + KP5 --> Up
• CTRL + KP0 --> Down
• CTRL + KP2 --> BackUP then CTRL (held) + KP5 --> Up then CTRL (held) + KP8 --> FrontUp

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Keyboard remapping is extremely flexible in AH.  Any view can be assigned to any key combonation.  
Examples:

• KP* --> FrontUp
• KP/ --> BackUp
• a --> Back
• s --> BackUp
• d --> Up
• f --> FrontUp

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IMO this system would not change the existing view system in a very significant way.  It would also make it easier to use.  

An option could be provided to use this method or to use existing method.  One method or the other could be user selected similiar to the way that "Otto Take Offs" are now user selected.

Advantages:  

• Static views can be selected by any joystick system allowing the view to be maintained without holding the switch in place
• Players could convert easily using only slight modifications to the existing game methodology
• HOTAS joytstick equipment could come closer to a true HOTAS, vice a view manipulation input device + a joystick
• Easier for players without expensive HOTAS joystick equipment to manage views by not requiring one hand on the keyboard all the time
• Every single view in AH is already keyboard mapable and it would not require extensive game code re-writting
• You don't wear out the tendons in you hands by having to continuesly hold keyboard keys down and / or a joystick switch in position.
• Seems easier and more intuitive
• Time for a change in on-line view methodology

Thanks for readiing if you got to here!  

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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 03-13-2000).]

[Duckwing6]

hmmm... i preffere the non-static (reseting views) because having to keep the view switch pressed gives me a positive feedback about my head orientation that i need to keep y orientation. (i use a MS-Prec. Pro and the only hassle i have is that the nbr.4 switch is my 45°up/normal toggle switch and it's a bit awkward to press with your tumb while holding the coolie hat to a certain view)

But every option is a good thing as long as we can choose how we want the setup  

[-lynx-]

Agree with Duckwing here. Fixed views make very little sense and double the workload in flight.

Say, a glance to the left is one hat-press - release and you back to default view. With fixed view it'll require another (conscious) input from a pilot. Can't really see it working. Plus, can we finally drop an argument about "cheap" vs. "expensive"
sticks? We all use more or less expensive machines costing hundreds of pounds/dollars/whatevers - a cheap stick nowadays comes with hatswitch as standard. And the difference in price between "cheap" and "expensive" was just a few quid last time I looked.

p.s. Mino, when was the last time you used KP4 <the keypad> to change views  ?

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-lynx-
13 Sqn RAF

[This message has been edited by -lynx- (edited 03-14-2000).]

[miko2d]

 You are forgetting about people with disabilities. For them absence of a fixed view means the game is not playable.

 Also, Fighting Corps (I think) allowed a very nice viewing mode - panning among the discreete views. Right/Left and Up/Down in 45-degree increments - that would be more usefull then slow unlimited panning view and  require only 4-way hat, though 8-way could also be utilised.

 miko--

[Minotaur]

   

Originally posted by -lynx-:
Agree with Duckwing here. Fixed views make very little sense and double the workload in flight.

Say, a glance to the left is one hat-press - release and you back to default view. With fixed view it'll require another (conscious) input from a pilot. <snip>

p.s. Mino, when was the last time you used KP4 <the keypad> to change views      ?

Lynx;

I use the Key Pad often if I am not engaged in combat.  Particularly outside of plane views, if they are available.

For your other questions, consider this for joystick users.  There is no more or no less hassle providing the joystick is programable.  

Abbreviations for my discussion:

• RV = resetting view - as it is now
• SV = static view - how I would like views to operate
• JHS = joystick hat switch

Two methods same result:

• RV - JHS pressed and held --> FrontUp then JHS released --> FrontHome
• SV - JHS pressed and held --> FrontUp then JHS released --> FrontHome

This is one configuration and only one more key press must be programmed under SV.  This is the Home key when the JHS is released and is described below:

• RV - JHS pressed and held sends KP/ (re-mapped) --> FrontUp then JHS released --> FrontHome
• SV - JHS pressed and held sends CRTL-KP8 --> FrontUp then released sends Home --> FrontHome

This becomes transparent to the user.

BUT....  The SV offers one important option.  You don't have to hold the JHS if you don't want to.  

I find the most efficient use would go like this:

• SV - JHS-1 pressed sends CRTL-KP8 --> FrontUp
• SV - JHS-2 pressed and held sends KP2 --> CheckSix then released sends Home --> FrontHome

For comparison:

• RV - JHS-1 pressed and held sends KP/ (re-mapped) --> FrontUp then released --> FrontHome
• RV - JHS-2 pressed and held sends KP2 --> CheckSix then released --> FrontHome

The SV system actually provides the same functionality and the same or better efficientcy.  This meaning the number of key presses required to accomplish a task.  In this case a higher SA by automatically checking six.

Checking six becomes reflexive to most players anyway and not an issue IMO.

For joysticks that are not programable (Sorry for my generalization, not always less expensive) and usually only have 4-8 buttons or switch positions. Button and switch utilization is critical and often requires the keyboard to utilize views.  

An efficient method for these users is to have one button on the joystick that serves as an Up view modifier.  Horizontal views are selected using the Key pad and are modified to Up using a button on the joystick.
 
Functionally for these users:

• RV - KP2 pressed and held --> CheckSix
• RV - JHS pressed and held sends KP5 --> BackUp
• RV - KP2 released --> Up

This requires the player literally to have their hand glued to the keyboard at all times.  What about flaps, gear and selecting weapons?

• SV - KP2 --> CheckSix
• SV - q --> drops a notch of flaps
• SV - KP. (re-keymapped) --> BackUp
• SV - F12 --> RW chat "Get this bogey off me. Maverick! Engage Damnit!"
• SV - KP5 --> Up

You get the idea...

   

Method of suggestion 1: Make views static by not acknowledging the "key released code". This would require the use of one "master reset key" as part of the program code. The function of the master reset key would be to send reset codes very quickly for all the view keys. The master reset could default to the Home key.

Realistically this method would be the easiest to implement for AH:

• Ignoring the "key pressed release code" would be fairly easy to implement as it is already a game function to read the them
• The Home key already functions to reset all "key pressed release codes" and return the view to FrontHome and will not effect view selection in either mode (RV or SV) only view resets

So the above example would work like this if key released codes were ignored:

• SV - JHS-1 pressed sends KP4 Left
• SV - JHS-2 pressed sends KP8 --> FrontLeft
• SV - JHS-3 pressed and held sends Home + KP2 --> CheckSix then released sends Home --> FrontHome

Primarily this would allow one modification to any view of Up, Down, Left or Right. This is possible now and provides the greatest possible versatility.  

Static views could be provided for the effort of three modifications to game code:

• Ignoring key released codes
• Creating a master reset key that resets all views and sends the view to FrontHome
• Provide a user selection toggle, similiar to "Otto Take Offs"

Realizing a mistake I have made in my discussion results from re-mapping my keyboard.  The Home key by default is used to reset a "Saved" view.  I have re-mapped this to use the F9 key.  The Home key is just one key used to describe a view reset, and of course, is re-mappable anyway.

Thanks again!    

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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 03-14-2000).]

[Minotaur]

HTC;

This is long!        Please read this only if you have the time.  I am excited about this possiblity and think that is it worthy of your consideration.

I am continuing my quest for modifying the AH existing view system.  The is regarding a change that would allow views to be selected, but not requiring that the key be held continuously.  

I believe that I have devised a method for you to accomplish this.  A system that works 100% within the current framework of game code and still provides the enhancements that I would like to see.

I am very confident my methods will work, because they already are working.  The method I use is external via programmed macros using my Thrustmaster Joystick.  I have used this same system for AW, WB and now AH.  

I am guessing that this implementation into your game code will remarkably improve versatility of an already remarkable and very versatial view system.  IMO this will "Blow the competition out of the water!".

Please keep in mind that I do not know the mechanics of programing nor the specific operations of a computor.  This presentation will only describe the logical and functional aspects of what I propose.

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Abbreviations I will use:

• KPC = Key Pressed Code - The code sent when a key is pressed
• KRC = Key Released Code - The code sent when a key is released
• VRF = View Reset Function - Any existing view in use is reset and the view is returned to FrontHome.
• KPH = Key Pressed & Held - When a key is pressed and held down
• KPR = Key Pressed & Released - When a key is pressed and released

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Discussion:
Currently AH utililizes a view that is called at "Look".  For example; "Look Front Up".  

I propose the addition of two more view methods and one more view added.  I call would call these views a "Stare", "Glance" and "Home".  For example; "Stare Front Up", "Glance Left" or "Home".

The use of a Stare, Glance and Home requires a coded function added to the game code.  I will call this the "ViewReset Function" or VRF.  The VRF will act to reset all 26 possible views.  Functioning to reset all the KPC's that are set and return the view to FrontHome.  

Reseting a KPC has no effect on the game, unless a specific KPC has been prevously set.  For example; if I send KPC_KP4, then  the KPC for key KP4 is set.  A call to VRF will simultaneously reset all the view key KPC's. Since only KP4 is set, then only KP4 is effected and then KPC is reset.

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Desription of Functionality:

• Look - When a Look view key is pressed and held (KPH) a KPC is sent.  When the key is released (KPR) a KRC is sent.  This is how AH works now and requires no changes.
• Stare -  When a Stare KPH is sent two different things will happen in order. First a VRF call is made, reseting any previously set KPC.  Second the the KPC is sent.  The KRC is ignored, and the view is not reset.
• Glance -  When a Glance KPH is sent a KPC will be sent and the view will function exactly as a Look view would.  When the KRC is sent this calls VRF and consequently all views are reset.  The view is reset to FrontHome
• Home = When a Home KPC is sent a VRF call is made.  Reseting the view to FrontHome.

Functionality:

• Look - No changes here, exactly as it is now.
• Stare - KPC calls VRF then sends KPC setting view.  The KRC is ignored.
• Glance - KPC sent sets view.  KRC sent calls VRF reseting all views.
• Home - KPC is ignored.  KRC sent calls VRF reseting all views.

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Implementation:
As I stated before, I request these modifications to allow sustaining a given view and not requiring the key to held down.  

Concerning Stare and Glance views, not every possible view of the 27 possible views will require the capability of a Stare or a Glance.  Only critical or more useful views, in the AH current view matrix, will require them.

Stare View Description:
These are views that are often used for combat and are critical IMO for "Lose Sight Lose Fight".  These views are used repeatedly to maintain constant view of the target.

The advantage of a Stare view is that it will always go straight to the view that is requested.  No mofifiers, no messing around, you press the key and you get the view.

Views that would have Stare capablility would be Front, FrontUp, Up, BackUp, Back, Left, Right and Down.  Basically the "core" view group.  

The Down view is only a useful combat view when using an external view.  It would also be very useful when using the bombsight.

Glance View Description:
These views have less value in combat, but are very important to maintain SA.  Glance views will serve as a modifier to a view that is already set.  For example if the Up view is set, a  Glance Left view would modify the Up view to LeftUp.

Views that would have Glance capablility would be Front, Back, Left and Right.  

Note:  The implementation of Glance views is not a critical as the implementation of Stare views.  Every function provided by the Glance view is currently provided by the Look view, except keyboard efficientcy.  I believe Glance views would increase efficientcy by requiring fewer key presses by not requiring a press of the Home key.

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Game Functionality and Operation:
Below I will give examples of how this system could be effectively utilized within the game.

Example:

• Stare Back - KPC VRF Back --> KRC null
• Look Left -  KPC BackLeft --> KRC Back
• Look Right - KPC BackRight --> KRC Back
• Stare BackUp - KPC VRF BackUp --> KRC null
• Stare Up - KPC VRF Up --> KRC null
• Look Back - KPC BackUp --> KRC Up
• Stare FrontUp - KPC VRF FrontUp --> KRC null
• Glance Left - KPC FrontLeftUp --> KRC VRF FrontHome
• Stare Front - KPC VRF Front --> KRC null  (Guns Guns Guns)
• Home - KPC VRF --> FrontHome

Example:

• Stare Left - KPC VRF Left --> KRC null
• Glance Front - KPC FrontLeft --> KRC VRF FrontHome
• Stare Right - KPC VRF Right --> KRC null
• Look Front - KPC FrontRight --> KRC Right
• Look Back - KPC BackRight --> KRC Right
• Stare UP - KPC VRF Up --> KRC null
• Look Back - KPC BackUp --> KRC Up
• Look Left - KPC LeftUp --> KRC Up
• Glance Front - KPC FrontUp --> KRC VRF FrontHome

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If you got to here, thanks for reading.  That is all I asked for in the beginning.

Thanks again!              
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 03-16-2000).]

[Duckwing6]

jeeeezz is that complicated Mino...
I mean all of this is pretty intuitive with a notmal coolie switch and 1 button to swap horizontal to 45°up mode...

But as i said as long as it's optional .. (options never hurt  )

[Minotaur]

 

Originally posted by Duckwing6:
jeeeezz is that complicated Mino...
I mean all of this is pretty intuitive with a notmal coolie switch and 1 button to swap horizontal to 45°up mode...

But as i said as long as it's optional .. (options never hurt   )

Duckwing;

Actually not complicated at all in use, but to explain properly kinda sorta.  

I don't think most people have been explosed to a system like this.  I have been using it for 3+ years.  Seems easier to me and as I said expands the versatility about 2 fold.

Thanks for your reply!  




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Mino
The Wrecking Crew