Hydroxy Booster part Deux

[CAP1]

Yeah I have a guy that I work with that think I'm crazy and tell me the same thing your buddy is telling you. When I try to explain that the car stereo, 500 watt amp, and 12" woofers he has in his car draw more power from his battery and alternator than my booster will pull from my trucks system he just doesn't get it. Even when I have everything installed and running with hard data to back everything up with he probably still wont believe. He's also one of those guys that preaches about the 2nd law of thermo dynamics. You know how you can't get more energy out of something than you put in, blaa blaa blaa. I keep trying to explain to him that he's right, but he's ONLY looking at the booster and not the entire integrated system, engine, booster, electrical system.

O'well there is no harm in trying right?

ya..my buddy mentioned that 2nd law too. what they also fail to realize is that your alternator only takes about 5 horsepower or less to run. by running, i mean when the field circuit is turned onto charge. when the field circuit is off, the alt. just freewheels, taking no extra power. it cycles on and off. i still think the gain will be much more than the cost.

as for trying? hell, when it sorks, it'll be friggin awsome. IF it doesn't happen to work, then it was still a fun experiment...and we got to learn too.

<<S>>

[CAP1]

i installed one on my chevy S10 pickup. well come back with hard data as i get it. seems to be working good though.

did you install the electronics too?

[Holden McGroin]

Even when I have everything installed and running with hard data to back everything up with he probably still wont believe.

Be prepared to believe that the second law cannot be violated if the data comes back that you wasted your time and money too...  I mean your experiment could come out that way too... right?

[CAP1]

Be prepared to believe that the second law cannot be violated if the data comes back that you wasted your time and money too...  I mean your experiment could come out that way too... right?

yes, it very well could. butcha know what? it STILL won't be a waste of time. first off, we proved it to ourselves. second, we did a fun little experiment. i'm sure i can think of other fun things to do with one of these units too.....

<<S>>

[Holden McGroin]

yes, it very well could. butcha know what? it STILL won't be a waste of time. first off, we proved it to ourselves. second, we did a fun little experiment. i'm sure i can think of other fun things to do with one of these units too.....

<<S>>

If they don't work, well let's see... you could use them as paper weights, add 50# of concrete and they could be boat anchors, you could put them on your fireplace mantel as conversation pieces...  yup they could be useful.

Of course, you could have properly inflated your tires and ...  well  yeah, they could be useful.

[Hornet33]

Be prepared to believe that the second law cannot be violated if the data comes back that you wasted your time and money too...  I mean your experiment could come out that way too... right?

Well you might be right, BUT,,,,,,,,I have personaly seen these things built, installed, working and seen for myself REAL results. It was at that point I decided to build one for myself.

Again, these boosters are NOT ment to be a cure all replacement for fossil fuels. They just give a little extra "kick" to fossil fuels to make a regular internal combustion engine operate more efficently and in the process save some serious cash at the gas pump. $82 for 20.857 gallons of gas for me tonight when I filled up. If I'm lucky that will last me 13 days of regular driving. With a booster installed and operating like it's supposed to, that much gas should be able to go 17-20 days, maybe more if I can tune the engine JUST right. That's a pretty good increase that I will take all day long.

[CAP1]

If they don't work, well let's see... you could use them as paper weights, add 50# of concrete and they could be boat anchors, you could put them on your fireplace mantel as conversation pieces...  yup they could be useful.

Of course, you could have properly inflated your tires and ...  well  yeah, they could be useful.

don't forget, sir....these items STILL produce a flammable gas, even if it doesn't help the mileage of the car running

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wipi1ZoFFCg&feature=related

looks like he's screwing around a bit...........

[CAP1]

Well you might be right, BUT,,,,,,,,I have personaly seen these things built, installed, working and seen for myself REAL results. It was at that point I decided to build one for myself.

Again, these boosters are NOT ment to be a cure all replacement for fossil fuels. They just give a little extra "kick" to fossil fuels to make a regular internal combustion engine operate more efficently and in the process save some serious cash at the gas pump. $82 for 20.857 gallons of gas for me tonight when I filled up. If I'm lucky that will last me 13 days of regular driving. With a booster installed and operating like it's supposed to, that much gas should be able to go 17-20 days, maybe more if I can tune the engine JUST right. That's a pretty good increase that I will take all day long.

problem is.......we all could be wrong. i don't think so. but i think that those that do think we are wrong just aren't looking at it properly. their eduction in their fields i think is actually working against them. again, i could be wrong, and will readily admit it if i am. i'll also find a good fun use for my unit too if it doesn't work. 

 right now, i'm averaging 15.4 mpg in my 5.2L dodge dakota. i drive it anywhere from 100-300 miles a week. it's a pretty even split between highway and around town. part of my problem, is that at the ripe old age of 46, i haven't grown up yet. i loooooove that v8 roar when i wind the gears. it's not a rocket slead, but it's quick enough for the traffic conditions round here. but that heavy foot kills mileage too.
 know how i know i won't accelerat lighter to try to "fudge" the numbers? because i friggin CAN'T. if i haven't lightened up in 29 years of driving, i don't think i'm gonna start now.

anyway, i think you'll have yours in before i get mine in. i'm going to purchase the o2sensor adjuster from the link you posted....and the map sensor too........

<<S>>

[Maverick]

Be prepared to believe that the second law cannot be violated if the data comes back that you wasted your time and money too...  I mean your experiment could come out that way too... right?

Without a dyno lab report prior to the modification and a subsequent one after the modification anything that will be reported is merely subjective feelings reported as an analysis. There is no base data using a fixed amount of fuel and elimination of other variables as well as an analysis of HP production unless a method is used to compare before and after on the same equipment and tested in the same manner.

I'd also like to know if anyone has flow tested the vehicle to determine how much air was passed through the carb or throttle body at a fixed speed / HP level for a fixed amount of time. That is kind of important since the equipment is going to be producing somewhere around 2 liters a minute of hydrogen gas. I'd really like to know what the percentage of the hydrogen gas would be from the overall amount of air flowing into the engine. A direct comparison in liters per minute would be relevant for comparison purposes.

[CAP1]

Without a dyno lab report prior to the modification and a subsequent one after the modification anything that will be reported is merely subjective feelings reported as an analysis. There is no base data using a fixed amount of fuel and elimination of other variables as well as an analysis of HP production unless a method is used to compare before and after on the same equipment and tested in the same manner.

I'd also like to know if anyone has flow tested the vehicle to determine how much air was passed through the carb or throttle body at a fixed speed / HP level for a fixed amount of time. That is kind of important since the equipment is going to be producing somewhere around 2 liters a minute of hydrogen gas. I'd really like to know what the percentage of the hydrogen gas would be from the overall amount of air flowing into the engine. A direct comparison in liters per minute would be relevant for comparison purposes.

we're not too concerned with the amount of air. this gas replaces gasoline, not air. if it replaced air, it couldn't make enough fast enough. my buddy did a quick calc, and i wish i could remember the numbers. but they were pretty high. i could hook up my scanner and log the grams per second for ya. that's how MAP sensors measure it for the vehicles puter.
 as for a lab test. wouldn't matter. real world is always different. what i MAY do...not sure yet.....but a friend of mine is supposed to visit my shop sometime in the next week or 2. if i were to install this  on her car without her knowledge(after first testing for safety on my own vehicle) her driving would remain the same, and any results would not be "fudged".
 anyway......if we fail, you guuys can all make fun of us, laugh at us, and say "i told ya so". if it does though.......

 

[Maverick]

Is the gas being piped in through the fuel feed line or through the open carb / throttle body?

[Holden McGroin]

we're not too concerned with the amount of air. this gas replaces gasoline, not air. if it replaced air, it couldn't make enough fast enough.

When you electrolyze water, you get Hydroxy gas.  It is a hydrogen / oxygen mixture, ready to explode.

Air is an oxydizer, as is the oxygen in your magic gas, so yes, it does displace / replace at least some air.  

[Maverick]

I was already aware that this gas was being fed through the air delivery system. I already knew it was not displacing gasoline since it is delivered via the air intake and not the fuel system. I'm still hoping someone will tell me what percentage of gas (and I mean atmospheric gasses not gasoline) this stuff is going to be in liters per minute at a given HP / speed for the vehicle.

I'd also be interested in how many BTU's this gaseous mixture produces versus the amount of gasoline it is claimed to be replacing. Then again that would require lab work and actual lab comparisons with a dyno before and after modification eliminating all the other variables.

[Holden McGroin]

I helped my buddy install some twin turbos on his Dodge Diesel PU, and has a a master spreadsheet of all the numbers he needed to understand his project.

Mass flow ratios for his PU are somewhere about 20:1 to 30:1 air/fuel when he's pulling 200 hp: the data point is appx 26 lbs/min intake air, 1.17 lbs/min fuel flow.

Diesel is largly cetane, (C10H22) and so a lb of diesel yeilds a 120 to 22 ratio of C to H.  So 22/142 lbs (0.155 lbs/min H) 

1 gal of water electrolyzed to hydroxy, you would get 8.345 lbs of gas, with 1 to 16 ratio of H to O. So, you get .49 lbs of H and 7.85 lbs of O.

The diesel burns, water does not.  You need to add energy of the diesel, going thru the alternator, to electrolyse the water.

If the engine is say 33% heat efficient, and the alternator is say 85% efficient, and the electrolysis of (being extremely generous) 90% efficient, than you have a 25% efficient energy conversion to get your magic gas.