Chog - Not to be perked

[Vulcan]

 

Originally posted by Creamo:
If next tour is like this,full of blue flying turbolasers, be sure I will be packing my things to flee as soon as WWIIOL or IL2 are up. Is the only way I REALLY can make HTC note I HATE the Chog so much that it SPOILS my fun enough not to be back here.

Tick-Tock, Tick-Tock, Tick-Tock...

<wonders why Creamos standing there hold a door open>

[StSanta]

LOL creamo, vulcan

Be NICE to ram; he has cute sisters  .



------------------
Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"

"I don't necessarily agree with everything I think." - A. Eldritch

[Vulcan]

 

Originally posted by StSanta:
LOL creamo, vulcan

Be NICE to ram; he has cute sisters   .

Yeah but can you imagine it...
V: "Oh yeah babey, oh yeah RAMs Sister - thats it thats it almost"

RS: "I quit... your Throbbing-Manhood is Uber!!!"

(least its not blue)

[Tac]

Good god, the CHOG not perked? HT must be on crack  

Last night we had a10 FLAT , our cv parked right besides it and 3 goonies on the way.

I was in a lancaster (had flattened vh, bh and fh's) above it.

While we waited for the goonies to drop a couple of n1k's came high and shot me down. Fair and square, I came up in a hellkitty from the CV.

We had about 4 friendly fighters over 10 at that point, the skies were clear of reds. 1st goonie arrived and by an incredible amount of bad luck the vh came up and LO and Behold! 6 or 8 OSTWINDS all spawned and overran the field. Goonie died.

Being mighty pissed off after being shot down by the ostdweebs I took off in...yes you guessed it.. the blue corvette with thy holy turbohispano.

50% fuel, no ordenenance. just guns.

In 3 passes I get 2 flakpanzers... then died. 2nd upping in chog gets me a 3rd flakpanzer. By this time the VH is down and the fp's are all dead.

With 200 rnds left the 2nd goonie arrives. 3 n1ks and a 190 come from 9 and start harrasing. Lo and behold, using my best skills acquired in WING COMMANDER I turn the chog at near stall and spray the general area where a n1k is following one of my buddies. His distance: 1.0d. Spray... 1 ping hit and THWACK! Out goes that n1k's wing. 1 kill and 120 rnds of turbohispano left.

HO the next n1k and down he goes in flames. 80 rnds left.

Then the horror begins. one of 10's FH's goes up and IMMEDIATELY 6 to 8 n1k's spawn and kill the goon.

Last 80 rnds spent in killing 2 more n1ks before I lawndart while following a n1k in a stalling turn (point and click remember?).

Up again, 3rd goon is 3 minutes out and hiding in fleet. N1k's have been kept at the deck. Using almost all my turbohispano I bring down the FH. Friends begin upping with ordenance. Sure enough, BH and the other FH comes up, a couple of TBM's and a zeke try to up, I get the zeke and a TBM with snapshots while I turn the blue wonder. BH and and FH brought down.

Goon lands and field taken.

Im really sad I couldnt film this take. It is the PERFECT example of why the n1k, ostwind and Chog should be perked. I in my CHOG (I think 2 or more of my countrymates were in it too) HOing and snapshot killing everything that I could WING COMMANDER my nose into, OSTWINDS coming up in hordes and killable only by CHOG and kamikaze bombing attacks, n1k hordes being used as ackstars and they too HO'ing and snapshot killing capability plus the 6 or 8 people using the n1k's to nearly defeat the 14 or so attackers coming from a nearby cv!

It was sickening. It is sickening. The fight for that field was like being back in MS Combat Sim and in FIGHTER ACE. Arcade point and click, no ACM whatsoever.

If AH is to become like this, and it WILL if these planes are kept unchecked I may as well go back to Fighter Ace which is cheaper.

Quit post? Time will tell.


[This message has been edited by Tac (edited 01-24-2001).]

[SOB]

"Tick-Tock, Tick-Tock, Tick-Tock..."


SOB

[Ripsnort]

 

Im really sad I couldnt film this take. It is the PERFECT example of why the n1k, ostwind and Chog should be perked.

Can I predict the future or what?  ...

[Karnak]

Damnit!  What is wrong with you people?

The F4U-1C might get perked (and it might, HTC hasn't decided yet) not because it is to "uber" (it isn't) but because a full 20% of the kills in the MA are done by it.  It is so common that it is distorting the perk point reward system.

BTW, the N1K2-J in comparison, is responsible for about 7% of the MA kills.  That is one third of the F4U-1C's kills.

You guys keep insinuating that the perk possibility is due to the anti-F4U-1C whiners.  It isn't, so please stop pushing that myth (or maybe you think that if you repeat it often enough people will believe you).  The N1K2-J is not going to be perked because it is not having anything like the effect of the F4U-1C.  It doesn't matter how much people whine about it, if it keeps in the 15% of kills or below range it will NOT be perked.  The F4U-1C is at 20% and HTC is only considering perking it.

------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Sisu
-Karnak

[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 01-24-2001).]

[AKSeaWulfe]

Damn you Ripsnort.. you must have the AH almanac or something for the future!! :-)

Chog doesn't need to be perked.. since my last posting of my stats (see above in this thread) I have come up with this:

AKSWulfe has 42 kills and has been killed 10 times against the F4U-1C.

Notice, two more kills than I had last time.. no more deaths.

AKSWulfe has 16 kills and has been killed 2 times in the fw190A-5 against the F4U-1C.

And 1 more kill in my trusty Fw for no deaths vs the -1C.


So that gives me a 4.something:1 k/d overall vs the -1C and a 8:1 k/d in the Fw vs the -1C.

Majority of these were through just outflying the guy, not vulching or sitting up high on some perch waiting for my chance to pounce.

I'm an average AH player, don't have as much time as a lot of guys having problems with the -1C in the main arena but I don't have problems with the -1C.

Fact of the matter is, guns are just weighing down the plane unless the pilot actually has his gunsight on you!

Am I right? Of course I am, guns are useless unless the shells can hit you.

AKSWulfe has 8 kills and has been killed 2 times in the fw190A-5 against the N1K2.

Now this little hot rod gives me the fits. It doesn't need to be perked though.

I fly what I like because I have an admiration for WWII airplanes. I have several books on the subject, I don't care much for the ground war(but I do know my history on it). I read a lot about the Luftwaffe, the VVS, the USAAF and the RAF. These planes tickle my fancy as the phrasing goes. I would hate to see a plane that is indeed NOT some sort of super plane be removed from the game just because it's a common plane. Planes that DO need to be perked include the TA-152, P47M(it's a fast fat bastid ;-), P51K/H(which model are we getting anyway?), Me262, maybe a few Yak series, the Ki84(I guess.. not really sure it worked out fine in WB though not perked!!), and a few others that I know of but don't care to list. I could go on and on about the planes that WILL be added in here someday that will be absolutely amazing in comparison to the F4U-1C and the N1K2. And they will most likely _NOT_ be perked because of large production runs and how common they were.

I admit, I didn't like the -1C pre-1.04 because in those days it was very difficult to escape it's guns. Now the flight model is, by HT's calculations(which I don't doubt in anyway, he's done this before remember..), modelled as properly as it can be on a PC. Now all it requires is a little SA, a little maneuvering and maybe a little luck and I can kill them easily.

I've been doing this long enough(playing air combat games) to understand that people will always go for the plane with a percieved advantage. I don't, and that's fine by me. This game, to me, really isn't about seeing who's got the bigger set but it's about flying planes from a bigone era.

Well anyways, I don't want to bore you with how much I enjoy this game because of it's recreation of WWII(minus the war attrocities!).

What we need to do is shift from the MA mindset and go back to creating scenarios. I remember in WB I always looked forward to the scenario lites(held weekly) where a certain air battle was recreated and played out. There the planes were within their own realm, fighting planes they were designed to fight and doing things they were designed to do. The MA is a free4all with teams, you can't deny someone their favorite ride there. Scenarios are what it's really all about if you want parity, trust me. Been there done that and it's a blast!

Ah forget it, this won't change anything but atleast I will have presented it to you guys so you can atleast get my point of view. (which should be viewed as neutral, I like all WWII airplanes.. not the faction it fought for)

Ripsnort, whenever I get enough money to attend one of these conventions I want to hear what you REALLY think about all this anti-this, anti-that nonsense! ;-)

See you guys in the MA, that is if I can see through my burning plane! :-)
-SW

[Karnak]

SW,
Its not about how powerful it is or how easily in can or cannot kill you (or me).

It is about simple logistics.  It is TOO common.

All this talk of what your stats are against it is just a smoke screen.  Nobody's kill/death ratio has anything to do with it.

I agree that it would be preferable if there were another solution, but I sure can't think of one.  Can you?

------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Sisu
-Karnak

[Apache]

 

The N1K2-J is not going to be perked because it is not having anything like the effect of the F4U-1C.

That's because the F4U1-C is still here. Simple logic and experience in other sims give credence to what Rip is saying. Take the chog away and it's 20% and it will just move to the next alleged uber AC.

[Nashwan]

Following that logic, the ideal way to stop the CHOG being so unbalancing is ... don't perk the Tempest  

[AKSeaWulfe]

 

Originally posted by Karnak:
SW,
Its not about how powerful it is or how easily in can or cannot kill you (or me).

It is about simple logistics.  It is TOO common.

Yes I agree it is too common. However, you perk the Chog and the next plane to have percieved advantages in some or most categories becomes the more popular ride. It's just the way the arena works. Too many people play this game to say "I'm better than you", and that leads to competition. When you get into a competition you want whatever gives you an edge over your opponent. Therefore, like Rip said, the N1K will be next. Followed by the Spitfire IX(don't believe me, fine.. but I flew WarBirds and in the early days it was the SpitIX, then when the F6F came out.. that was it.. then when the Fw-190A4 came out.. that was it.. then when the P38L came out.. that was it.. then when the Fw-190D9 came.. out that was it.......).
Unless you can enforce players to actually want to fly the lesser aircraft (ie: a better score multiplier per plane not based on perk points), then you won't have much variety. It's only when you get guys who like a particular aircraft or who like them all will there be variety. So, if you fly an F4F3 you should have a set multiplier so you get more points(perk and not), then when you kill a plane, you get the value that plane is worth times the worth of your plane. The more popular a plane, the higher the worth of it being shot down but the lesser of the worth of killing in it. The perk system solves half the equation, but as far as the actual scoring system goes you should have a multiplier to inspire people to want to actually try something new.

Until then, you run into the problem discovered in AW, then WB, and now here: The majority here are just here to shoot guns and see things blow up. They'll use the plane that gives them a good number of cards in the deck to ensure that they win.

Perking it isn't the answer, giving less points in reference to the scoring system *IS* a part of the solution for killing in a more popular plane and more points to guys who kill a more popular plane in a less popular plane(or lesser ability plane).
-SW

[Torgo]

Why on earth do people keep trying to insist that there will be just as many Nikis after the CHog is perked as there were CHogs, and the Niki will immediately have to be perked, when that argument has been repeatedly destroyed?

That flies TOTALLY in the face of all avaliable evidence.

1) Niki can't be flown off carriers

2) Niki is far from the best jabo or tank killing choice

3) We're likely to get several other aircraft fairly soon that quite likely won't be perked, that are competitive with the P51D/Niki/Spit IX group, including the La-7.

Yes, the Niki will become the aircraft with the most air to air kills if the CHog is perked. That is beyond question.

But it will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER come CLOSE to the Chog in total % of arena kills, or sorties.


Anyone who thinks all the CHog kills and sorties will all instantly become Niki sorties if the Chog is perked is using about 1 brain cell.

The current CHog sorties are gonna end up getting split among the Niki, DHog, Hellcat, Typhoon, perhaps even the P47 to a small degree.

[Tac]

"But it will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER come CLOSE to the Chog in total % of arena kills, or sorties."

Heh, you just wait and see.

"Anyone who thinks all the CHog kills and sorties will all instantly become Niki sorties if the Chog is perked is using about 1 brain cell."

Use your 1 brain cell for a moment. N1k has a MUCH better FM than the CHOG..its way unreal imho. The only reason why you see CHOGS all the time is because their cannon is better, its blue, carries more ordenance and is carrier capable.

They wont go into typhoons because the tiffie is not forgiving at stall speeds and is not for "point and shoot" wing commander'ish flying. Chog and N1k seem to have been designed just for that... plus the tiffie has FAR less ammo, so they cant spray and pray in it.