Author Topic: Pyro: question about the buff .50s  (Read 453 times)

Offline Sunchaser

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Pyro: question about the buff .50s
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2000, 10:13:00 AM »
Me too CavemanJ.

Offline mx22

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Pyro: question about the buff .50s
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2000, 11:02:00 AM »
Hey Cave, was it you yesterday vulching 11 in B26? It didnt look like you suffered from lack of guns lethality....

mx22

Offline CavemanJ

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Pyro: question about the buff .50s
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2000, 05:11:00 PM »
I dinnae remember vulching 11 in a 26... I dinnae fly the buffs as much anymore

still hoping to get Pyro's comments, even after he was manning me guns the other day  

Offline Toad

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Pyro: question about the buff .50s
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2000, 08:32:00 AM »
Hoot mon, how's the haggis?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Swoop

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Pyro: question about the buff .50s
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2000, 11:06:00 AM »
I agree.

realism is one thing....yes ok a lone buff would be an easy target over berlin but we're not over berlin.  We're playing a game and that's the important word:  Game.  It's gotta be fun, for everybody.  At present flying around in a bomber is not the most fun way I've ever spent a sunday afternoon.  Most of my time in the air is spent avoiding enemy contacts cos I know it means the end of my sortie and a real fast trip back to the tower.   Yeah ok, I've gotton some kills of dorks who fly in at 6 o'clock but I think buff drivers die far too easy.

Instead of beefing up the .50s......how about beefing up the buff armour instead?  I don't think buffs should be seriously leathal but I do think they should stand a lot more damage then they do....make those fighters work for a kill......and if you leave the guns alone it'll sort out the men from the boys.....newbies will park emselves at 6 o'clock and get shot down (eventually) but an ace will make several passes at high speed.

I wanna have to fly home with 2 engines out and half a tailplane....I want oil leaks, fuel leaks to worry about....not to hear 1 ping and suddenly find myself back at the tower (how the hell a fighter kills the pilot of a B17 from behind is beyond me).  The key word here if FUN.  At present it ain't.

And I don't care what anybody says about net lag and crap like that.....I see the fighter start shooting, half a second later I'm back at the tower.  Network lag?  Bollocks. Besides, I've tested at 56k, 64k ISDN and 128k ISDN and from the T3 at work....same every time.  

Swoop


[This message has been edited by Swoop (edited 03-24-2000).]

Offline CavemanJ

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Pyro: question about the buff .50s
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2000, 01:11:00 PM »
The netlag issue is tied to the lethal range of the guns.  A fighter making a slow approach on your 6 can basically park just outside a buff's lethal range, while still being well inside his own.  This is netlag.  On the fighter's FE the distance is 700yds, on the buff's FE the distance is 1-1.1k yds.  The buffs need a range boost to account for the netlag issue, so they have the same chance as the fighters where lethal range is concerned.  HT once said the buff's had a slightly longer range because of this, but Pyro has since said they dinnae have it.  Frankly, I'm waiting for the deffinitive answer to that and other points brought up in this post.

ALL .50s are nerf'ed.  Earlier today I was flying a P38 and a squaddie was flying the Hawg-C.  We engaged a spit.  My wingie was lower than the spit, and the spit was lower than me, so I went for the spit when he started for me wingman.  To make a long story short, 3 gun passes on the spit, including a solid 2 second burst, failed to down the spit.  I was using only the .50s and all hit sprites were on the cockpit/wingroot area, fired at d400 or less.  Checked conns afterwards and was running average 170 w/ no packet loss.
My wingie took the spit down w/ a single pass, I got credit for the kill.

On the plus side of the Nerf(TM) .50 issue, I've become more proficient in fighters because I dinnae fly the bombers near as much anymore, there's just no fun in it.  Who wants to launch knowing they're going to die at the first contact w/ the enemy.
Before the .50s were nerf'ed or the fighters were made much, MUCH harder, I would return shotup in the manner Swoop described.

Still waiting for the details from Pyro

Offline Pyro

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Pyro: question about the buff .50s
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2000, 11:04:00 AM »
Sorry, haven't been keeping up with the boards well lately.

There have been no changes made in this area.  



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Offline CavemanJ

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Pyro: question about the buff .50s
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2000, 03:12:00 PM »
Pryo, thx for getting here, but saying "There have been no changes made in this area" dinnae answer anything and lets our speculation continue to run rampant.

What about the extended range for netlag issue?  I could've sworn HT said in the arena buffs had a slight range boost (300-400yds) to account for this and keep fighters from parking on a buff's 6 just outside the buff's lethal range.

What about it being said the .50s were turned down for play balance (said during beta tour 1 I think)?

How is it easier for me to hit a bandit when he can kill me before he even gets close to my lethal range (and .50s were lethal to 1600yds, there are recorded kills to prove this).  As they stood the last time I flew a buff (a day or two after you were on me guns was the last time) it's not even worth shooting unless the bandit is inside 500yds on my FE, and by then he's at 200 or closer on his FE and I'm dead.

I've said it several times, and I'm sure there are a few pilots in the arena that will breathe a sigh of relief, but I have quit flying bombers.  The .50s are nerfed, whether by changes to aircraft hardness or whatever.  Take the guns off the bombers all together and it won't change their chances for success.

I just won't be a target drone, especially when I'm one of the hottest buff gunners in the arena.
And if that sounds concieted, I guess it is, and it comes from alot of pilots telling me they wished they had known it was me so they could have left me alone.

There is NO fun in driving the buffs anymore

Offline Thunder

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Pyro: question about the buff .50s
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2000, 11:13:00 PM »
Pyro,

As a bomber pilot I can saw honestly that the bottom line is ....flying "Bombers" in Aces High is not fun any more. I hope you will concider what CavemanJ is saying because he is saying it pretty straight. It doesn't matter whether it is a single buff or a large group (tight or untight). You're dead unless you fly in the super stratosphere (the fighters must climb to you) and your guns have an advantage. The only way you can effectively survive is by being escorted by a group of fighters. HiTech Creations has the abliity to modify the gameplay to acheive whatever results you deem appropriate. We have a very large bomber squadron and the turnout and moral is really becoming evident on squad night. I hope you will concider what might be done to help make it more enjoyable for all. Pilots that enjoy flying Bombers & Fighters all pay the same $29.95/per month. I know you guys are working hard to create the best Simulation that you can. And I also know you are trying to make it FUN for everyone! Keep up the good work .. please concider this post.

Thanks,
Thunder
Aces High DickweedHBG: www.dickweedhbg.com

Offline Pyro

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Pyro: question about the buff .50s
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2000, 10:53:00 AM »
Pryo, thx for getting here, but saying "There have been no changes made in this area" dinnae answer anything and lets our speculation continue to run rampant.
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I can't make it any more clear than that.  If you want to continue to speculate, then it doesn't matter what I say because you won't believe me anyway.  

Thunder, I'm not saying that some changes aren't needed, I'm only saying that none have been made.  I side with those who think that bombers are coming down too easily and I think some adjustments need to be made there.  But that's a different story than what this thread is about.



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Offline CavemanJ

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Pyro: question about the buff .50s
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2000, 02:41:00 PM »
Ok, let me ask some specific questions, and you can give some deffinitive answers.

1) Do the bombers have a range boost to account for netlag?

1a) if not, how is it easier for buff gunners to get hits when the fighters have 1-2seconds (or more) seconds of free time outside the lethal range of the buff guns (while inside the fighters lethal range).

2) Were the .50s ever turned down for play balance? And if so, were they turned back up (if not, why not?)


You've said changes haven't been made to the .50s since early in the beta.  Accepting that, one must assume the now nerfed .50s are from the tweaking that was done to the damage model/mapping as it was tweaked.  Or that they were never turned back up (assuming they were turned down in the early beta).  Something is seriously wrong with the .50s, even with no changes made to them, and I'm not the only one who believe this.

Offline Mox

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Pyro: question about the buff .50s
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2000, 04:21:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by CavemanJ:
You've said changes haven't been made to the .50s since early in the beta.  Accepting that, one must assume the now nerfed .50s are from the tweaking that was done to the damage model/mapping as it was tweaked.  Or that they were never turned back up (assuming they were turned down in the early beta).  Something is seriously wrong with the .50s, even with no changes made to them, and I'm not the only one who believe this.

Flying a bomber in beta was a blast and it's what made me decide to spend my $30 a month.  Now we have a game where the .50's are nerfed and the HogQuakers are making this just another "deathmatch" where the biggest gun wins.  BFG9000 comes to mind.....just point in the "general" direction of your enemy and shoot.

I'm starting to keep a running tally of how many times I've been HogQuaked...  
The running total for 2 nights of playing is 7.  None of the recorded deaths were HO's or vulches and 5 of the 7 were single ping kills.

Single ping kills= 1 ping and I'm in the tower.

Mox
The Wrecking Crew



[This message has been edited by Mox (edited 03-28-2000).]

Offline Pyro

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Pyro: question about the buff .50s
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2000, 05:36:00 PM »
Cave, gunners don't get a boost to their absolute max range, but they do get a boost to their effective max range because we don't use fine hit detection with gunners.

As to changes in .50s and damage, I've already answered that and you asked me again.  It's wasn't a Clintonesque answer that I made.  If you feel that a bug is present, show me a film of what you purport to be happening to you all the time.



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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

Perfect plans, aren't.