Author Topic: The Executive Ban? It's Gone! <sniker>  (Read 5126 times)

Offline bongaroo

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Re: The Executive Ban? It's Gone! <sniker>
« Reply #180 on: July 18, 2008, 08:57:20 AM »
write your representatives.  would be cool to see a bill on the floor pitched from the AH2 bbs.  probably never happen but who knows!?!
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Offline moot

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Re: The Executive Ban? It's Gone! <sniker>
« Reply #181 on: July 18, 2008, 09:02:04 AM »
You know, that's legislation I could get behind. Of course that makes too much sense so it would never happen :frown:
This sort of tragedy is what someone ought to pick up on and communicate to the public.  If britney and rev. jackson can get the public to listen to their BS, surely someone can make a 10 second ad/sounbite that succintly exposes such a basic and pertinent disfunction's importance and coresponding solution to the general public.
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Offline Toad

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Re: The Executive Ban? It's Gone! <sniker>
« Reply #182 on: July 18, 2008, 09:33:14 AM »
Algae, let's not forget algae.

They're trying to make biodiesel out of algae, water and sunlight out in the desert areas of the US. It has some promise but they're not there yet.

$500 million to those guys if they can put out bioidiesel at $75 a barrel.

There's details to work out but the idea is to get the dreamers, inventors, innovators and doers in motion.
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Offline lazs2

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Re: The Executive Ban? It's Gone! <sniker>
« Reply #183 on: July 18, 2008, 09:49:05 AM »
toad and bongaroo..  (sorry.. no intent to lump you together)

I have nothing against the government offering a billion dollar prize for the first practical and cheap car that get's 100 mpg while carrying 4 people and doing o-60 in say 7 seconds and with a range with all the accessories on of oh.. 200 miles?

I have no problem with them using road tax money to fund the prize.

I have no problem with the government offering a billion dollar prize for the first solar panels that are 50% or better efficient and cost less than 10k to run a medium sized house.  they can take it out of energy tax.

But... we need to be practical and offer incentives to explore and open up all areas to drilling at the same time..  so long as there is a reasonable safety margin..  I believe the record for offshore rigs is good enough now to put any hand wringing in the proper perspective.

So far as "freedom"   how much "freedom" will you have if there are riots and cities burning or forests burning with no hope of putting em out?   How much freedom will you have if you spend yourself into a depression with some dead end tech that you are married to that doesn't play out?   How free is the guy who can't heat his home in the dead of winter?   How free when federal troops get called in to stop the riots.

The air today is so bad that people only manage to live 10 years longer than they did a few decades ago..  The water has never been safer.   We have never had such a high standard of living.. I can see how you could want to get rid of all this evil...

and.. you are doing your part.. after all.. you ride a bike huh bongie?   I bet I waste less than you do.   I don't say I have the right to make everyone mimic my lifestyle tho.   

nope..  we need to quit being a bunch of women and get hot on the problem...  and from a lot of angles.. we will need oil no matter what for the foreseeable future.. lets explore and drill.. we can work on all the other stuff at the same time including nuclear plants and wind and solar.

lazs

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Offline Toad

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Re: The Executive Ban? It's Gone! <sniker>
« Reply #184 on: July 18, 2008, 10:10:03 AM »
But... we need to be practical and offer incentives to explore and open up all areas to drilling at the same time.. lazs

lazs

Hey, I got money left, no problemo.

$50 million each to the first 10 offshore rigs that begin producing in 5 years or less.

Another $50 million to the first 10 producing rigs in each of  10 all new (previously untapped) land areas.

And I would STILL have money left... so come up with some more ideas!  :rock

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Offline lazs2

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Re: The Executive Ban? It's Gone! <sniker>
« Reply #185 on: July 18, 2008, 10:24:08 AM »
toad..  I agree completely that you have a workable solution. 

It is so logical and simple that it will be impossible to happen.   No one will be made dependent and government will feel left out and not be able to take as much credit as they like...  They will have a hard time manipulating all that juicy money.

It is like my solution to the illegals problem of just having a federal clearing house like on buying a gun..  instant background check..  no pass.. no job.. employer hires em without the check?   he goes to prison.. mandatory 6 months.   It would work it is simple.. it will never happen

Too harsh?  what do you think happens to a gun dealer who skips or falsifies the background check?

lazs

Offline Elfie

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Re: The Executive Ban? It's Gone! <sniker>
« Reply #186 on: July 18, 2008, 01:08:17 PM »
Here's an idea for the dumbaxes in Congress.

Remember the idea to suspend Federal gas taxes from Memorial Day to Labor Day?

The 18.4 cents-per-gallon gas tax and the 24.4-cents-per-gallon diesel tax would equal about $9 BILLION.

OK, here's the plan... we DON'T suspend the taxes, that would only make the deficit worse. However, we do take ~50%, let's round it at $5 Billion, and divert it into an award fund.

We give $500 million to the winner of the 100 MPG car X-prize contest.

Another $500 million to anyone that can come up with a design to double solar panel efficiency in the next 5 years.

Another $500 million to anyone that can double wind power efficiency in the next 5 years.

Another $500 million to anyone that can get a Fischer-Tropsch process coal plant going that produces fuel at $75/bbl and can meet a realistic output while avoiding damage to the environment.

Another $500 to anyone that can get ethanol out of agricultural waste (see Iogen) at a competitive price.

There's more... that's only $2.5 billion. I'm sure we can think of other areas to push using incentives like this.

That would be DOING something. Right now, we're stuck on stupid in DC.

Toad for president?   :aok
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Offline avionix

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Re: The Executive Ban? It's Gone! <sniker>
« Reply #187 on: July 18, 2008, 02:13:37 PM »
Quote
Right now, we're stuck on stupid in DC.

And why do people keep on insisting it is Bush.  Blame Congress at the same time.  They just defeated a stupid proposal by the Dems to force oil drilling in areas where the oil companies have leases.  Most of that land is not feasible or would cost more to drill in than it is worth to the Joe Blow American.  Let's let some common sense people make the decisions rather than some lifer politician that hasn't had to wipe his own butt in years.

I agree with the plan by Toad.  Makes alot of sense.  People and companies always work a little harder and a little faster when their is an incentive put out.

The only issue that I have, is the time frame to get that technology out there.  What do we do in the mean time?  Keep paying ridiculous prices for gas?  We still need to drill in the meantime. 
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Offline BnZ

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Re: The Executive Ban? It's Gone! <sniker>
« Reply #188 on: July 18, 2008, 02:46:01 PM »
That is by God right Laz.

Make something that costs people less in gas to run and is just as good, and people WILL buy it. Build something that doesn't have the power to haul a family and all their stuff and is a complicated maintenace nightmare and costs at least $30K new and don't whine to me about the American consumer.

Americans right now need a car that is 1. Fuel effecient. 2. Reliable. 3. Easy to work on if something does go wrong. 4. As inexpensive as possible. (The trend of having to haul your car to a mechanic everytime a little something goes wrong because its got computers in it that would put NASA to shame is bad IMO.) Instead, we get cars that have t.v.s in them, that lock themselves, that ring little bells if you want to leave the keys in the ignition, and are otherwise full of complicated crap that is mostly annoying and entirely a head-ache to work on.

I have two tractors I use for work on my farm, a bulldozer and a backhoe I work for money on the side. You can't put any of them on a trailer and pull'em behind a Prius. Diesel fuel is expensive enough right now. So yeah, I don't have much time for anyone who wants regulate my truck out of existence or kick me when I'm down with higher fuel taxes.

Offline CAP1

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Re: The Executive Ban? It's Gone! <sniker>
« Reply #189 on: July 18, 2008, 02:59:05 PM »
That is by God right Laz.

Make something that costs people less in gas to run and is just as good, and people WILL buy it. Build something that doesn't have the power to haul a family and all their stuff and is a complicated maintenace nightmare and costs at least $30K new and don't whine to me about the American consumer.

Americans right now need a car that is 1. Fuel effecient. 2. Reliable. 3. Easy to work on if something does go wrong. 4. As inexpensive as possible. (The trend of having to haul your car to a mechanic everytime a little something goes wrong because its got computers in it that would put NASA to shame is bad IMO.) Instead, we get cars that have t.v.s in them, that lock themselves, that ring little bells if you want to leave the keys in the ignition, and are otherwise full of complicated crap that is mostly annoying and entirely a head-ache to work on.



wanting all of the above isn't too realistic anymore, unforttunatly. to get fuel efficiency, since the internal combustion engine is still very very inefficient, we need to add computer controls, to keep tabs of and constantly adjust fuel, spark, and in some cases, even valve timing. fuel timing is critical to efficiency in an injected engine. quite a few cars now, control the spark timing individually from cylinder to cylinder to help With mileage. THE fuel timing and fuel curve are constantly adjusted for the same reason. finally, the hondas mostly, and some mazdas and fords have variable valve timing. this is controlled through it's own computer.
 with all of these computers networked together, there is nothing really simple if they break.

unfortunatly, simple is gone. even cars simple by todays standards are fairly complicated. if some people would spend a week doing diagnosis and repairs on these things, they'd get a whole new idea of what a mechanic/technician has to deal with.

 you best defense against expensive repairs is to keep up with basic maintenance. you'd be very surprised at how many people will plunk 30k on a car, and then avoid the simplest of maintenance on that 30k investment.
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Offline bongaroo

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Re: The Executive Ban? It's Gone! <sniker>
« Reply #190 on: July 18, 2008, 03:08:02 PM »
you best defense against expensive repairs is to keep up with basic maintenance. you'd be very surprised at how many people will plunk 30k on a car, and then avoid the simplest of maintenance on that 30k investment.

oh man, i could tell some car horror stories that all begin with avoidance of simple maintenance.

the best of the best:  "you still have to change the oil in new cars?"    :rofl
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Offline crockett

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Re: The Executive Ban? It's Gone! <sniker>
« Reply #191 on: July 18, 2008, 03:46:20 PM »
Algae, let's not forget algae.

They're trying to make biodiesel out of algae, water and sunlight out in the desert areas of the US. It has some promise but they're not there yet.

$500 million to those guys if they can put out bioidiesel at $75 a barrel.

There's details to work out but the idea is to get the dreamers, inventors, innovators and doers in motion.

It's not just out west... My uncle owns a large fish farm here in Florida and works with the University of Florida with it. One of the side projects they are working on is doing testing with algae oil. It looks promising but I still think we would be better off using natural gas for cars simply because it's like oil and can be used as the one common fuel for the entire country.

The only down side of NG is if we try to use it both for power and a fuel the prices would be driven up just like oil.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2008, 03:47:57 PM by crockett »
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Offline Toad

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Re: The Executive Ban? It's Gone! <sniker>
« Reply #192 on: July 18, 2008, 04:12:11 PM »
The only issue that I have, is the time frame to get that technology out there.  What do we do in the mean time?  Keep paying ridiculous prices for gas?  We still need to drill in the meantime. 

Good point. We scale the rewards. The faster you get it done, the more money you get. Still have to keep it so that even if it takes 5 years the reward is still a very strong incentive.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Toad

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Re: The Executive Ban? It's Gone! <sniker>
« Reply #193 on: July 18, 2008, 04:15:15 PM »
It looks promising but I still think we would be better off using natural gas for cars simply because it's like oil and can be used as the one common fuel for the entire country.



The biodiesel is a direct substitute for diesel is it not? Think how many trucks from pickups to semis could use it. If it was workable and really cheap, you'd see more diesel cars too.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline crockett

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Re: The Executive Ban? It's Gone! <sniker>
« Reply #194 on: July 18, 2008, 04:30:37 PM »
The biodiesel is a direct substitute for diesel is it not? Think how many trucks from pickups to semis could use it. If it was workable and really cheap, you'd see more diesel cars too.

It is, but I don't think there is any one bio diesel that could be used as a replacment for the entire country. That's why I say NG is the best option, because we have enough to provide for the entire country's fuel needs assuming we didn't keep using it for producing energy for our power grids.
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