Author Topic: HTC, u gonna look over the gunnery/damage model for next release? (Read 251 times)

Maniac · « **on:** March 23, 2000, 05:01:00 AM »

U gonna look over the gunnery/damage model for next release?

An simple yes or no would do just fine.

Regards.

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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-

http://www.rsaf.org/osf/

Ripsnort · « **Reply #1 on:** March 23, 2000, 07:37:00 AM »

The only problem I have with that is...you can never satisfy the people, look at AGW on gunnery, damage models, a never ending arguement. If you leave it as it is, then people adjust for it. My 2 cents worth, not saying this is right or wrong, just saying it's better to have a small, one serving size can of worms, rather than the industrial, 10 pound can of worms.

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Ripsnort(-rip1-)
++JG2++ ~Richthofen~ XO
Aces High Training Corps
JG2 "Richthofen"

"Experience is a hard teacher because she
gives the test first, the lesson afterwards"

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 03-23-2000).]

Westy · « **Reply #2 on:** March 23, 2000, 07:44:00 AM »

Maniac? why don't you just email him/them with your concerns and see what they say?

-Westy

Maniac · « **Reply #3 on:** March 23, 2000, 08:05:00 AM »

"If you leave it as it is, then people adjust for it"

Either they adjust or they leave rip. . .

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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-

http://www.rsaf.org/osf/

Ripsnort · « **Reply #4 on:** March 23, 2000, 08:34:00 AM »

And for everyone that leaves, there are two at the door signing up to get in.

You never please everyone.

Also, when WB's starting tweaking around, look how many they lost.

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 03-23-2000).]

Maniac · « **Reply #5 on:** March 23, 2000, 08:57:00 AM »

Most of the people did not leave because of the gunnery (i and several others didn´t anyway).

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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-

http://www.rsaf.org/osf/

Vermillion · « **Reply #6 on:** March 23, 2000, 09:19:00 AM »

Maniac, what problem would that be?

I know that a few people have a perception that there is a problem with long range gunnery, but the evidence seems to be quite lacking.

Now admittedly I am skeptical, since my arena experience tends to show otherwise. But I am willing to look to change my opinon if evidence is provided that shows otherwise.

Pyro stated long ago, that if people posted guncams showing the problem that he would go back and look at this. So far there have been no takers.

So the obvious answer to your question is, provide guncams showing the problem, and the problem will be researched further/de-bugged/adjusted.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Desperately trying to figure out why Kamikaze Pilots wore helmets"

Maniac · « **Reply #7 on:** March 23, 2000, 09:29:00 AM »

Verm,

We all know that d6-d1.3 kills are happening djust now as i type this, theres no need for an guncam film to prove that. Or are you saying that there are no d6-d1.3 kills?

As an former WB pilot i dont think i will ever get used to this.

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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-

http://www.rsaf.org/osf/

Vermillion · « **Reply #8 on:** March 23, 2000, 10:18:00 AM »

I admitt that there may be a rare hit out to beyond 600, no arguement. Mostly on a non-manuevering opponent who is flying straight and level, or on bombers.

I honestly think that an actual kill out beyond 800 (before you always said 800, now I notice its 600

are we shooting at a moving target?) is an extremely rare exception. In my entire time of flying Aces High since the first day of beta, I can only remember being killed at that range only once. It was the first day the F4U-1D was introduced, and I was extending in a Hog myself flying straight and level. And Wendle from WB's in a Hog, admittedly sprayed 75% of his ammo to remove a wing at 900 yards on my FE that had been damaged earlier in the sortie.

Quote

We all know that d6-d1.3 kills are happening djust now as i type this, theres no need for an guncam film to prove that

LOL!!

If we all "know its happening" and its so commonplace, then it should be a very simple task to jump in the arena and grab some film.

Hey if its that easy and commonplace, you should be able to get 5 or 6 kills that way in an hour or so, and make me look really stupid here

Seriously, I know I am giving you a hard time here, and its not personal and I'm mostly kidding.

But I truely believe alot of this is perception, and not fact. Mostly caused by a learning a new flight model where energy is at a premium as well as a new admittedly more lethal gunnery model. We all went thru the exact same thing when we went thru the transition.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

Ripsnort · « **Reply #9 on:** March 23, 2000, 10:21:00 AM »

Maniac, what Verm is saying is that this thread was brought up before, and Pyro said to send him film showing kills over D1.0 to him. Well, no one has sent him film yet. Also, it is well documented that Korean war Aces getting Mig kills from 4000 ft.+ out (D1.3) and this was with realistic atmospheres, not ideal conditions like we experience with flightsims... and shooting a level target at D1.3 with .50 cal is possible in real life.

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Ripsnort(-rip1-)
++JG2++ ~Richthofen~ XO
Aces High Training Corps
JG2 "Richthofen"

"Experience is a hard teacher because she
gives the test first, the lesson afterwards"

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 03-23-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 03-23-2000).]

leonid · « **Reply #10 on:** March 23, 2000, 11:00:00 AM »

Just yesterday I lost both ailerons from a Spit that showed on my FE as 1.1k (and, yes, I bailed - only to be killed while in my chute. We commies get no respect

). Taking netlag into consideration that means about 800m/yds, actual. I've read of kills from this distance, so it doesn't bother me. Now if I ever was severely hit from 1.4k, then I might take issue. But that scenario has yet to happen.

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leonid, Komandir
5 GIAP VVS RKKA

"Our cause is just. The enemy will be crushed. Victory will be ours."

danish · « **Reply #11 on:** March 23, 2000, 11:01:00 AM »

Maniac:
I would guess HT \Pyro has "playability" way up on their agendas.No matter what its clear that the heavy cannons have a definite impact on the arena right now, and will be even more so with the new release.(Small) changes has got to come - anyone wanna bet? ;=)

danish

Westy · « **Reply #12 on:** March 23, 2000, 11:20:00 AM »

To back up what Leonid is saying, I had a flight against a 51 last night ( I was in a P-38 that had an initially higher E state ) where I saw him go from a close 600-800 and then slowly but increasingly he moved out to 1700 in range. I was about to give up and reverse course back when I saw the bogy do what I'd been hoping he would (but had given up alread)and that was climb and bank.
I used the great zoom climb of the 38 on em and after a moment or two I had solution and shot him down.
Whats my point? Neither of us was warping yet the bogy said on the open channel that he had seen me at 800 in range off his six (while I saw 1700) and felt he was being run down by my 38.
So net lag? Something else? Who knows.
But as for how this is also relevant to the topic, I never fired when he was at 600 because shots at that range are a crap shoot and essentially a waste of ammo.
From the way some make it sound it's like Star Wars in here. Not so. Not at all so.
D800 plus are rare, hard to get and more the result of net lag fooling you into thinking the bogy is closer in your view all the while the bogy thought you were further back.

-Westy

Ripsnort · « **Reply #13 on:** March 23, 2000, 11:51:00 AM »

I think the proof is in the pudding. I NEVER take a shot from further than D800, yet my gunnery in AH is .05.

In Warbirds, I avg. .25 gunnery.

To me, this gunnery is much more difficult than WB's.

Also, they have made adjustments to cannons (3 weeks ago) and made them less lethal.