Unofficial Trainers - Read This Please

[Gixer]

KOTH doesn't mean a damn thing in this game. 

Of the same opinion myself, think years ago (pre 2003) KOTH was something but it seems to of fallen to the wayside. About as meaningful as having a low score and your name in the news page.


<S>...-Gixer

[TequilaChaser]

Guys & Gals

KOTH serves it's purpose, and it is meaningful....the KOTH organizers are striving to keep making it better for everyone. As with any other event that the Volunter staff bring forward for the AH Community........ they all have their ups and downs.......no event is ever going to run perfect everytime without any hicups....

KOTH builds good practice habits of
Fuel & Energy Management, Gunnery, Situational Awareness, ACM, among other things.  If you don't like KOTH or you do not participate in KOTH on a regular basis, then you seriously have no right to SLAM it or throw it under the rug persay........

There has always been great fights to be had in KOTH and it helps the newer flyers learn more valuable flying habits, that translate into better opponents to fight against in other arenas....

[The Fugitive]

Guys & Gals

KOTH serves it's purpose, and it is meaningful....the KOTH organizers are striving to keep making it better for everyone. As with any other event that the Volunter staff bring forward for the AH Community........ they all have their ups and downs.......no event is ever going to run perfect everytime without any hicups....

KOTH builds good practice habits of
Fuel & Energy Management, Gunnery, Situational Awareness, ACM, among other things.  If you don't like KOTH or you do not participate in KOTH on a regular basis, then you seriously have no right to SLAM it or throw it under the rug persay........

There has always been great fights to be had in KOTH and it helps the newer flyers learn more valuable flying habits, that translate into better opponents to fight against in other arenas....

TC, nothing against KOTH, or any other event that is put on by the volunteers who work so hard to ADD to an already great game, I think what K might be trying to say is in the old days the players of this game were more honorable. When you entered KOTH it was to see who was "King of The Hill", not see see who could bend the rules to there advantage. It was pilot against pilot in like planes to see who came out on top, as it should be, no "gaming the game" crap.

The same holds true in the MA's. The old days were full of people having fun. Land grabbers attacking and taking bases with full blown defenses, furballs erupting and going on for hours because the win the war types didn't bust them up, they just moved on to another area to win the war. Honor amongst enemies.

These days its too much about getting your name in lights, being at the top of the score board no matter how you got there, gaming the game, just no honor in it any more. Maybe its the influx of the kids with there "win at all costs" attitudes. To many of them spend half their time on the computer looking for cheat codes in the games they play, always looking for the quickest way to the top, instead of investing the time to actually get get good at the game. In the old days, the top of the leader board WAS the leaders. They didn't "work" their scores to get to the top, it just happened because the score reflected how they really played, NOT those that spend hours milking their scores to look good.

I know who the good sticks are, and I don't have to look at the scoreboard to see it. I know who the best in the buffs are, and GVs, but you don't always see them at the top because they aren't out there padding their scores. Their out there playing the game, those are the guys and gals that I respect.

Ya Bosco won KOTH this month, but I think if you put him, Mtman, vudac, and TC in a free for all in the hogs, he'd be hard pressed to win 1 out of 10. KOTH is still a great event, and for those who like that style of event I'm sure its a blast, you guys run well set up events, I have to give you that. But I don't think being the KOTH champ means the same as it use to. 

[Masherbrum]

TC, nothing against KOTH, or any other event that is put on by the volunteers who work so hard to ADD to an already great game, I think what K might be trying to say is in the old days the players of this game were more honorable. When you entered KOTH it was to see who was "King of The Hill", not see see who could bend the rules to there advantage. It was pilot against pilot in like planes to see who came out on top, as it should be, no "gaming the game" crap.

The same holds true in the MA's. The old days were full of people having fun. Land grabbers attacking and taking bases with full blown defenses, furballs erupting and going on for hours because the win the war types didn't bust them up, they just moved on to another area to win the war. Honor amongst enemies.

These days its too much about getting your name in lights, being at the top of the score board no matter how you got there, gaming the game, just no honor in it any more. Maybe its the influx of the kids with there "win at all costs" attitudes. To many of them spend half their time on the computer looking for cheat codes in the games they play, always looking for the quickest way to the top, instead of investing the time to actually get get good at the game. In the old days, the top of the leader board WAS the leaders. They didn't "work" their scores to get to the top, it just happened because the score reflected how they really played, NOT those that spend hours milking their scores to look good.

I know who the good sticks are, and I don't have to look at the scoreboard to see it. I know who the best in the buffs are, and GVs, but you don't always see them at the top because they aren't out there padding their scores. Their out there playing the game, those are the guys and gals that I respect.

Ya Bosco won KOTH this month, but I think if you put him, Mtman, vudac, and TC in a free for all in the hogs, he'd be hard pressed to win 1 out of 10. KOTH is still a great event, and for those who like that style of event I'm sure its a blast, you guys run well set up events, I have to give you that. But I don't think being the KOTH champ means the same as it use to. 

fluff'n A right.   

As for the bold text above?   It echoes MANY players sentiments.   

[TequilaChaser]

But I don't think being the KOTH champ means the same as it use to. 

I would agree to a point...you make very valid points , so did Karaya........

the old days, it was all about the fight, yes we allwant to win.but more importantly we all wanted honest straight up give it all you got GOOD fights....... today some are more for I got to win at all cost type atitude, and stretch the rules as far as they can to skirt , cut throttle flying clear across the map to get to the last 2 or 3 people fighting.....just to arrive as one of the last 2 guys fighting dies and they come in with major alt & E to someone who is drained completely of both.......

if everyone would just go back to the atitude of"Wanting that palm sweating profusely type fights" and forget about the name in lights, then yes it would be even better....

but there is still hope, and there is alot of us who still show up looking for those fights,  and those fights are still there in KOTH, to be had......

things never remain the same , and if you do not at least accept the change( wrong word ) acknowledge that things change....then you get left behind..we all have experienced this, wether it be oldtimers wanting/missing the days of AW DOS, or WB(1), or even AH(original 99/2000/2001 era ) 

The KOTH CM's know things have dropped a bit, but they make every effort to improve it, to try and bring back guys like wetrat, BigMax, Wldthing, Stang, etc...( very long list of old timers who show up hardly anymore )

[Yossarian]

I would agree to a point...you make very valid points , so did Karaya........

the old days, it was all about the fight, yes we allwant to win.but more importantly we all wanted honest straight up give it all you got GOOD fights....... today some are more for I got to win at all cost type atitude, and stretch the rules as far as they can to skirt , cut throttle flying clear across the map to get to the last 2 or 3 people fighting.....just to arrive as one of the last 2 guys fighting dies and they come in with major alt & E to someone who is drained completely of both.......

if everyone would just go back to the atitude of"Wanting that palm sweating profusely type fights" and forget about the name in lights, then yes it would be even better....

but there is still hope, and there is alot of us who still show up looking for those fights,  and those fights are still there in KOTH, to be had......

things never remain the same , and if you do not at least accept the change( wrong word ) acknowledge that things change....then you get left behind..we all have experienced this, wether it be oldtimers wanting/missing the days of AW DOS, or WB(1), or even AH(original 99/2000/2001 era ) 

The KOTH CM's know things have dropped a bit, but they make every effort to improve it, to try and bring back guys like wetrat, BigMax, Wldthing, Stang, etc...( very long list of old timers who show up hardly anymore )

TequilaChaser (and all 'old-timers'), I may not be the best judge of such things, because I'm only 16, but it seems that it's very easy to fall into the 'trap' of nostalgia.  I've done that in another game that I play, which has a completely different style, and whilst I accept that the new graphics are better than the old ones of that game, I still miss the way it used to be.  In addition to this, next year at school there are a lot of new people joining my year group.  I know that this means we're all going to have to begin behaving far more sensibly and maturely than we do now, and I and many others will miss all the pissing-around etc, however we're still looking at the positive side of things.

So basically, why don't you just try to 'embrace' Aces High the way it is, rather than attempt to change it.

I for one love it right now    If someone HOs me, I either attempt to lob a 75mm through their windscreen, or I get killed.  Either way it's fun 

<S>

Yossarian

[TequilaChaser]

So basically, why don't you just try to 'embrace' Aces High the way it is, rather than attempt to change it.

Did you even read and comprehend what I wrote?

I for one love it right now    If someone HOs me, I either attempt to lob a 75mm through their windscreen, or I get killed.  Either way it's fun 

that last part speaks volumes of todays players verses players that want the fight more than some cheap 1/2 attempted Joust....

nothing more to say....except hopefully you will learn to want more than to lob a 75 mm into someones windscreen ( HO shot ) and get fun out of it.....

[Steve]

So basically, why don't you just try to 'embrace' Aces High the way it is, rather than attempt to change it.

I for one love it right now    If someone HOs me, I either attempt to lob a 75mm through their windscreen, or I get killed.  Either way it's fun 

<S>

Yossarian

Not all change is good.

[Yossarian]

Did you even read and comprehend what I wrote?
that last part speaks volumes of todays players verses players that want the fight more than some cheap 1/2 attempted Joust....

nothing more to say....except hopefully you will learn to want more than to lob a 75 mm into someones windscreen ( HO shot ) and get fun out of it.....

Yes I did read it, however I'll reread it now.  Ok, done.  Basically, what I was trying to say is that I understand why and what you're missing (I think), however I think the nostalgia is being taken too far and too seriously.  Why?  Because rather than accepting that changes happen (as you said), a vocal minority of players appear to be attempting to change the way the game works (or at least want to change the way it works) in order to accommodate the way it used to be.

However, I don't think, and I hope that the game won't be changed in such a way.  You can still find good fights if you look hard enough.  And if you're so determined to find them, I'd expect that you'd also be willing to take the time to look for them.  I'm certain that if you arrange to meet at a certain corner of a map, or if the 'old-timers' designate a certain corner of a certain arena to having their 'good fights', you will get them.  However, us n00bs are still happy to do what is necessary to win.

RE my HOing comment: I sort of meant that as a [bad] joke, but not entirely.  It all depends on what sort of mood, and plane I'm in.  AFAIK, B-25s aren't really built for barrel rolls, which sort of limits my options when confronted with a player determined to HO.  Please note that I will not initiate a HO, however I will accept one if I feel like it.  In a fighter though, I'm far happier with a tail chase, however if I feel my opponent is going to HO me, and I don't feel up to avoiding it, I'll do my best to get a guns solution on him as well.  Also, I far prefer Immelmans and loops to TnB.

Anyway, back on topic:  Steve, I agree that not all change is good, but I don't think this change is bad.  Sure, it may be bad from your perspective, and from that of many other 'old-timers', but I still feel that this particular change is sort of neutral.  Although it is annoying for some people, for increasing numbers of people this game is just great fun, and I mean really really great fun.  It isn't a 'community' for many of these people as it is for you.

I hope this makes at least some sense, and at least partially conveys my points.

<S>

Yossarian

[The Fugitive]

Yes I did read it, however I'll reread it now.  Ok, done.  Basically, what I was trying to say is that I understand why and what you're missing (I think), however I think the nostalgia is being taken too far and too seriously.  Why?  Because rather than accepting that changes happen (as you said), a vocal minority of players appear to be attempting to change the way the game works (or at least want to change the way it works) in order to accommodate the way it used to be.

However, I don't think, and I hope that the game won't be changed in such a way.  You can still find good fights if you look hard enough.  And if you're so determined to find them, I'd expect that you'd also be willing to take the time to look for them.  I'm certain that if you arrange to meet at a certain corner of a map, or if the 'old-timers' designate a certain corner of a certain arena to having their 'good fights', you will get them.  However, us n00bs are still happy to do what is necessary to win.

RE my HOing comment: I sort of meant that as a [bad] joke, but not entirely.  It all depends on what sort of mood, and plane I'm in.  AFAIK, B-25s aren't really built for barrel rolls, which sort of limits my options when confronted with a player determined to HO.  Please note that I will not initiate a HO, however I will accept one if I feel like it.  In a fighter though, I'm far happier with a tail chase, however if I feel my opponent is going to HO me, and I don't feel up to avoiding it, I'll do my best to get a guns solution on him as well.  Also, I far prefer Immelmans and loops to TnB.

Anyway, back on topic:  Steve, I agree that not all change is good, but I don't think this change is bad.  Sure, it may be bad from your perspective, and from that of many other 'old-timers', but I still feel that this particular change is sort of neutral.  Although it is annoying for some people, for increasing numbers of people this game is just great fun, and I mean really really great fun.  It isn't a 'community' for many of these people as it is for you.

I hope this makes at least some sense, and at least partially conveys my points.

<S>

Yossarian

The reason us "old timers" complain about the changes is pretty simple. You having never experienced it might have a hard time understanding, so lets try this...


Your in your 25 crusing along, and spot another 25 low to your 10 oclock heading in the opposite direction. Which do you think would be more fun, you dive in hard, going for the HO and get the kill because you got off your "pumpkin" before he did, OR  you start a slow climb to the left keeping an eye on him as you slip onto his 6 and dive in, he breaks at the last minute and the fight is on. 5 minutes later your low on the deck, one engine smoking and dead, fuel leaking from your left main, and your left aileron is missing, but the other guy is a smoking heap as you rtb.

In the "old days" 98% of the time people choose option 2, today 80% of the time they choose option 1. Thats why we miss the old days. Fights for bases lasted 45 minutes to an hour, Tank battles were rolling fights. Would you rather get blown up at a spawn by a camper, or spawn and have to find the fight in the countryside? Change is good, and inevitable, but what the game play has changed to isn't better, just a very pale version of what the game play use to be.

[Masherbrum]

The reason us "old timers" complain about the changes is pretty simple. You having never experienced it might have a hard time understanding, so lets try this...


Your in your 25 crusing along, and spot another 25 low to your 10 oclock heading in the opposite direction. Which do you think would be more fun, you dive in hard, going for the HO and get the kill because you got off your "pumpkin" before he did, OR  you start a slow climb to the left keeping an eye on him as you slip onto his 6 and dive in, he breaks at the last minute and the fight is on. 5 minutes later your low on the deck, one engine smoking and dead, fuel leaking from your left main, and your left aileron is missing, but the other guy is a smoking heap as you rtb.

In the "old days" 98% of the time people choose option 2, today 80% of the time they choose option 1. Thats why we miss the old days. Fights for bases lasted 45 minutes to an hour, Tank battles were rolling fights. Would you rather get blown up at a spawn by a camper, or spawn and have to find the fight in the countryside? Change is good, and inevitable, but what the game play has changed to isn't better, just a very pale version of what the game play use to be.

Yep.   

[Zazen13]

So basically, why don't you just try to 'embrace' Aces High the way it is, rather than attempt to change it.

I for one love it right now 
Yossarian

I can explain this...

Anyone who started playing 3 years ago or less only really knows the incarnation of the game we have right now, they have no real basis for comparison. It hasn't changed very much at all since then. But, actually that's extremely unusual for this genre. The game is in constant flux, the whole genre has been since the beginning. Those of us that have been playing 4-20 Years can objectively evaluate those constant changes retrospectively. Some are good changes, some are not.  Some are programmatic, some are player based. Some are beyond our control, some are not.

So, especially the changes that are within our control and player based, we (the community) have some direct influence over. We have the potential to transform the bad changes and reinforce the good. Part of the way we do that is right here on these forums. We transmit our community culture to you in the hopes of endowing you with the same sense of personal responsibility for the integrity of the game that we have. If we can successfully do that, your behavior will change over time to reflect that same deep respect for the game and the community. In time you too will likewise communicate that sense of personal responsibility to the next generation and so on.

[Steve]

  Steve, I agree that not all change is good, but I don't think this change is bad. 
Yossarian

How the heck would you know?  You weren't around for the days of dogfighting. You have absolutely NOTHING to base your opinion on. Nothing.

[bmwgs]

The reason us "old timers" complain about the changes is pretty simple. You having never experienced it might have a hard time understanding, so lets try this...


Your in your 25 crusing along, and spot another 25 low to your 10 oclock heading in the opposite direction. Which do you think would be more fun, you dive in hard, going for the HO and get the kill because you got off your "pumpkin" before he did, OR  you start a slow climb to the left keeping an eye on him as you slip onto his 6 and dive in, he breaks at the last minute and the fight is on. 5 minutes later your low on the deck, one engine smoking and dead, fuel leaking from your left main, and your left aileron is missing, but the other guy is a smoking heap as you rtb.

In the "old days" 98% of the time people choose option 2, today 80% of the time they choose option 1. Thats why we miss the old days. Fights for bases lasted 45 minutes to an hour, Tank battles were rolling fights. Would you rather get blown up at a spawn by a camper, or spawn and have to find the fight in the countryside? Change is good, and inevitable, but what the game play has changed to isn't better, just a very pale version of what the game play use to be.

I find this post interesting.  I have been on Aces High for about a year, but I am by far one of the older players in age.  When I started playing AH I read all the website material (many times) and I went to the TA and practiced what I read.  I then found out about the forums and read them on a daily basis.

I see a little two face action going on, because I hear about all this honor, but I have been HO-ed  and Spawn Camped by the biggest names in the game.  I don't mean the top guns by score, I mean the ones who are really the better sticks.  So here on the forums I hear all about this honor code, but tomorrow one of these big named guys will see my lowly Spit 9 and them in their 51 or 38 and the HO will be on.  Of course they will call it a deflection shot, but if I was to do it I would be blasted on 200 or PMed for HOing.

I don't complain on 200, and I don't whine.  I just up another plane and go back for more.  I find the game fun and I try to keep that perspective.

There is no doubt that the game has changed over the years.  That is life in general.  If I had my way we will still be living in the 1960's, but that's not going to happen, so I try to go with the flow as I enter my Golden Years.

Just some thoughts on the subject, not wishing to offend anyone.

Fred

[mechanic]

How the heck would you know?  You weren't around for the days of dogfighting. You have absolutely NOTHING to base your opinion on. Nothing.

with respect steve, if a player spends a good amount of time in a decent crowd furballing the DA dohnut then they can get a hint of what a decent dogfight shuld be like. There is a fair bit of fresh talent that does not often hit the MA, a trip to the DA can be humbling but you wont find a better test of your moves than a good 1 on 1 with a stranger or friend. That said i like to think 5 years ago i was a little part of the old style game and youre right it is much altered.