Author Topic: Troop Icons (don't read if you think it's a dead horse)  (Read 351 times)

Offline Fury

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Troop Icons (don't read if you think it's a dead horse)
« on: September 05, 2000, 10:56:00 AM »
I got to thinking about troop icons last night.  As usual, the thinking was started as a result of something that didn't go quite my way  

Currently, there are no icons for ground-to-ground contacts.

Ground-to-air contacts have regular icons just like air-to-air.

Air-to-ground contacts have a greatly reduced icon range (d1.5).

If I kick out troops from my M3, why do they all hold "Shoot Me!" signs over their heads?  For example (from the defensive side), when I am defending a field with an M16, if I happen to miss the M3 sneaking on the field, I can still screw up his drop because I can see him drop his troops.  Therefore, I can easily spray and pray from d1.0 or greater and kill of enough of the troops to mess up the take.  And if I am dropping my troops from my M3, and have been lucky enough to sneak next to the map room, suddenly anyone on the field can tell that a drop is in progress.

Since the addition of ground vehicles, I don't think there is any reason to have the troop icons.  The only reason I can think of having them in the first place was as an aid in defending your base when all we had to defend it with was planes (easier to strafe).  With a properly defended base (at least one M16), I don't think we need icons on troops anymore.

Now for justification for my thoughts.

A)  Currently, ground-to-ground icons are not available.  I'd like to see ground troops treated like ground vehicles.  No icons over troops to enemy vehicles when the troops are on the ground.  If you are in an M16 and close enough to see the M3 on your field, you are close enough to see the little guys marching along.  When dropping troops from a C47, the icons disappear when the troops hit the ground.

B)  Possibly make troop icons work like vehicle icons when talking air-to-ground.  Troop icons on the ground only show up at d1.5 (this may already work like this; I don't strafe troops).  Possibly have troops in chutes have an icon range of D1.5 (just like ground vehicles).

C)  Possibly remove troop icons altogether.  It's easy to tell when a C47 has dropped troops, I don't need an icon to see the chutes (either from the ground or the air).  Removing icons altogether means no icons on troops ground-to-ground, air-to-air, or air-to-ground.  (Or at least treat the chutes like other planes, where icons disappear under 500ft.)

I know something like this is low on the priority list.  Hopefully some sort of change would be fairly simple to implement and have little impact on the more important stuff.  I think that removing icons from troops in any or all of the above "suggestions" would make base defense a little harder than it is now (that does not mean that it is easy now) and make ground defense vehicles even more important.  People can be oblivious to a drop until those darn troops are released.

And it may make base capture a little easier    I'm not sure of the range of the troops, but without icons, it seems that I would be able to drop my troops from the edge of the field rather than right next to the map room, and they could try to dash across the field without holding their "Shoot Me" signs up.  Again, makes base defense with ground vehicles more important.

Just some thoughts.

Fury

Offline snafu

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Troop Icons (don't read if you think it's a dead horse)
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2000, 11:05:00 AM »

Offline popeye

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Troop Icons (don't read if you think it's a dead horse)
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2000, 11:08:00 AM »
"And it may make base capture a little easier "

Guess that's the question, is it too difficult to capture bases now?  Would gameplay be improved if base capture were easier?

popeye
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Offline Ripsnort

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Troop Icons (don't read if you think it's a dead horse)
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2000, 11:28:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by popeye:

Guess that's the question, is it too difficult to capture bases now?  Would gameplay be improved if base capture were easier?

popeye

That depends on how  much one has practiced: Case in close- Ripsnort asks CaveJ "Do you want to take AXX (small airfield)?" Cavej, says "Yeah, I'll take a P38L with rockets.."
Rip loads troops up in C47.  Cave kills all ack with one plane loaded with rockets, and Rip captures it 20 seconds later.


Offline Fury

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Troop Icons (don't read if you think it's a dead horse)
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2000, 11:30:00 AM »
heheeh thanks snafu, I guess it is an old horse but not yet a dead one?   (I  didn't look far enuf back in the forums).

And I personally don't really think it is too hard to capture bases right now.  I do believe captures are easy to spoil in part because of the icons (I do a lot of M16 driving).  I think it would be a little easier if you did not have to drive an M3 all the way to the map room before dropping troops (anything less than the map room is suicide unless the base is not defended at all).  The added "excitement" of not knowing if troops are running around your base would be fun, I imho.  I don't think "no icons" on troops would make it *too* much easier to capture bases, but it would make it a little harder (or more important) to defend (that sounds like a politician's sentence lol).  "Does harder to defend mean easier to capture?" lol

Fury

Offline Fury

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Troop Icons (don't read if you think it's a dead horse)
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2000, 11:32:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort:
That depends on how  much one has practiced: Case in close- Ripsnort asks CaveJ "Do you want to take AXX (small airfield)?" Cavej, says "Yeah, I'll take a P38L with rockets.."
Rip loads troops up in C47.  Cave kills all ack with one plane loaded with rockets, and Rip captures it 20 seconds later.


Seen it, up close and personal.  You guys work really well together.  When you're "on", it's quite hard to stop those lightning attacks.

Fury

Offline Fishu

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Troop Icons (don't read if you think it's a dead horse)
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2000, 01:38:00 PM »
Are invisible troops enough?

During ten days of play, I saw one field (bigger field) get captured so that I didn't see a one single troop, and I did even give alot of 4x20mm mix all around the bunker, so that no trooper might be alive (I shot Ju52 just at the edge of field)

I did not see any troops on my fly-by while strafing alot ammunition, and about 3-5 seconds from passing right over the bunker, I find out that field got just captured, even though I did not see troops and strafed wide area.

Well, this is not the only time, but that is probably what you wish for!
(it is probably some 'within range' problem)

Offline Ripsnort

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Troop Icons (don't read if you think it's a dead horse)
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2000, 01:45:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Fishu:
(I shot Ju52 just at the edge of field)


WB flash back?  


Offline Fishu

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Troop Icons (don't read if you think it's a dead horse)
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2000, 04:51:00 PM »
hmm, you can say so.. damned C-47s in lend skins.

(and on going ju-52 3d modelling  )

Offline snafu

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Troop Icons (don't read if you think it's a dead horse)
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2000, 01:49:00 PM »
Sad to say this is a dead Duck, horse Whatever   . Pyro implied as much in another thread thread. http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/004593.html

Would be nice to be able to have it as a setting in the SEA though for historical events, Seems crazy to me that an M3 loaded with troops doesn't have an Icon but as soon as one jumps out it suddenly becomes visable to everyone for 1500 (Or is is 3500) yards. I think if the guy in the M3/Goon etc has managed to get that far without being spotted/killed the drunks at least deserve a chance.

As to making a field easier to capture I can't agree, 90%+ of field captures are because of good organisation, (Me and one other, zhira I think) defended A15 against 109's, B17's, P47's, F4U's, B26's & Goons the other day for about 45 minutes. It was still ours when I logged off. They had absolutely no plan whatsoever and it was the best kill streak I have ever had  .

Conversley what Rip said is equally valid, organise an attack correctly and Troop Icons would not be an issue .  

I'm with you all the way on this Fury   but I fear it will never happen  

TTFN
snafu

[This message has been edited by snafu (edited 09-07-2000).]

Offline Fury

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Troop Icons (don't read if you think it's a dead horse)
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2000, 08:36:00 AM »
Thanks for the link to that thread snafu.

Well, at least he didn't say "Troops will always have icons"!  What I make up about his response "Troops are given an icon because we really have no other means to make them visible."; hopefully with the examples I gave above, I'm not certain why they need to be made visible.  I  was d4.0 from a vbase (granted, zoomed in thru the main gunsight) and I saw the troops dropped just fine (with chutes open they are relatively easy to see).  Watching them run across the ground was a little tougher (now that I think about it, I don't even remember seeing icons on them!) but I could do it.  (This was a friendly drop).

I'm wondering if the range of troop icons is much lower, because now that I think about it, I did not see any icons last night in the example mentioned above.  I was a friendly tank about d4.0 from a vbase watching a drop from a friendly C47 through the main gunsight.  I never saw an icon from the drop until the map room was destroyed.  Now I'm confused, maybe it is just a shorter icon range.

Anyway I hope HTC will at least keep options open; I won't repeat what I wrote in my first post but I think the "arguements" posted there are not entirely shot down by what Pyro stated in that other thread.

Fury

Offline jarbo

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Troop Icons (don't read if you think it's a dead horse)
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2000, 10:25:00 AM »
I would like to see minimized troop icons myself.

Jarbo