Waffen SS Squad?

[alskahawk]

I can't believe this thread has reached 11 pages dealing with a 'no-brainer' issue.  It's offensive, period.  It was a military unit that supported and swore allegiance to Hitler.  Why this has to be debated is rather moronic.


ack-ack

 Put me on the list that finds anyone who forms or joins such a squad as suspect. BTW I ran one of the largest German themed squads in AW. We never allowed any swastikas or any racial rhetoric. We liked the Jadgwaffe history, organisation aspects and aircraft. There were some who wouldn't join our squad because it was a German squad. I understood. Anything world war two and German often gets painted by the same brush. An SS squad is offensive. Even to a Luftwaffe fan like myself. (actually a fan of all aircombat)There is a big difference between the Wehrmacht and the SS.
 I have a lot of books on the SS and while they may have fought hard they are branded by the actions of their ideology. Kind of like the rebel flag. No one said anything while it was used for racial hatred but now its a Southern pride issue? I would not put the SS in the same class as the Commando's or Ranger's. Ya they all fought hard and died hard. But the SS still had racial hatred as their mantra.

[SmokinLoon]

I can't believe this thread has reached 11 pages dealing with a 'no-brainer' issue.  It's offensive, period.  It was a military unit that supported and swore allegiance to Hitler.  Why this has to be debated is rather moronic.


ack-ack

There are opinions, there are facts, and there are truths.  Those of us who can look at history objectively and leave behind the personal opinions have an advantage over those who can not.  No one will argue against the wrongs the SS did. However, one must not stop with the SS if they want to go the PC route for reasons I've already stated.  The regulating of historical unit names will need to stretch far wider than anyone wants to allow.     

Like so much of the PC rhetoric in todays world, something is only offensive if you choose it to be and that is what the debate is all about.   

The SS soldiers were not as good as they were because they were "fanatics" and had hearts as black as the swastika itself, but rather due to their absolute professionalism and proficiency with battlefield tactics, weapons of war, and a knowledge of their enemy. 

[Rich46yo]

Loon your not going to have an objective, historical discussion here. If one thing has been established its that.

[saantana]

The SS soldiers were not as good as they were because they were "fanatics" and had hearts as black as the swastika itself, but rather due to their absolute professionalism and proficiency with battlefield tactics, weapons of war, and a knowledge of their enemy. 

Thats the point at which you seem to cross the line.
If I stated that about Jihadists who slaughter journalists etc, would you agree with me? Would that be an okey line of argument?
Answer that please.

[Anaxogoras]

The SS soldiers were not as good as they were because they were "fanatics" and had hearts as black as the swastika itself, but rather due to their absolute professionalism and proficiency with battlefield tactics, weapons of war, and a knowledge of their enemy. 

Hey, I have something new to contribute to this thread.

The men chosen for the Einsatzgruppen, or mobile-killing-units in the East, were selected precisely because they were the most accomplished, well behaved and mild-mannered of regular society, e.g. lawyers, dentists, etc.  In theory, anyone who showed clear enjoyment at the work of extermination was not thought fit for the job.  Excesses were punished as much as omissions.  More broadly, the reticent were selected over the bloodthirsty because they are easier for a totalitarian government to control.

Thats the point at which you seem to cross the line.
If I stated that about Jihadists who slaughter journalists etc, would you agree with me? Would that be an okey line of argument?
Answer that please.

Don't call them "Jihadists."  That's the Muslim equivalent to "Freedom-Fighter," or something else with a very, very positive connotation.

[saantana]

Don't call them "Jihadists."  That's the Muslim equivalent to "Freedom-Fighter," or something else with a very, very positive connotation.

I can call them terrorists if you want. The only reason I didn't is because I did not want to possibly offend anyone.
I think a comparison is applicable. They too are 'well trained' (in terrorist camps), share a fanatical sense of duty (how else would you explain blowing yourself up with a explosive belt?) and can be termed as 'elite'.
This line of argument would P. a lot of people off. Including myself.
It all depends what side of the coin your sitting at.
In my general view if the name SS pisses a lot of people off, change it. Then if someone voices outrage at another squad name, let it be known. I never said this is strictly reserved for SS. I said that this name in particular is not acceptable, especially since it had nothing to do with the LW.

[Anaxogoras]

This reminds me of when what's his name lost his TV gig for saying the 9/11 terrorists were not cowards, because cowards would never have been able to pull it off.  Technically, what he said was absolutely true.  Wahabi extremists are successful at what they do because try train intensively for it, know their enemy better than the enemy knows them, and approach their task as professionals.  Like the Einsatzgruppen, they tend to come from professional backgrounds and upper-middle-class families.

This line of argument would P. a lot of people off. Including myself.
It all depends what side of the coin your sitting at.

Whether or not it pisses people off has nothing to do with the truth of an argument or statement.  I'm sitting on the same side of the coin as you, aren't I?