Author Topic: Game balance: Any plans HTC ?  (Read 245 times)

Offline Staga

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Game balance: Any plans HTC ?
« on: May 22, 2001, 03:58:00 PM »
IMO AH is almost perfect game but this is issue which have been bugging me since I came in Beta.
Are there any plans to support country with lesser players or should AH try two country map ?
 

 

(I've already heard that two country map wouldn't work but could it be any worse than this ?)

Offline Fatty

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Game balance: Any plans HTC ?
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2001, 04:09:00 PM »
Yeah, it could be 80 red and 27 green, with no second front to dilute the red.

Nexus

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Game balance: Any plans HTC ?
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2001, 04:25:00 PM »
The Knights have been taking a shellacing these past two days.

I really think 3 sides is the best balance.

Perhaps perks could be ratioed so if it's 100 to 20.  Those on the 100 side pay 100% for perk planes (70 for a tempest), and those on the 20 side only pay 20% of the perk cost (14 for a tempest).

The way the game is now, once a country starts to go down, it goes down fast.

Ah, maybe it's just best to end the misery and start over.

Nexus

Offline iculus

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Game balance: Any plans HTC ?
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2001, 04:26:00 PM »
I agree with the problem of balance.  It is interesting to see that, in this case, it isn't the knights with least pilots.

Salute,
IC

Greg 'wmutt' Cook

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Game balance: Any plans HTC ?
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2001, 05:41:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by iculus:
I agree with the problem of balance.  It is interesting to see that, in this case, it isn't the knights with least pilots.

Salute,
IC

Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, But I think 27 is a lower number than 36  
This is a problem that plagued online games for ever, and the only solution is self-moderation.
Btw, Those are some of the most even numbers I've seen in over the past few weeks.
I was online just before this was taken, and I can tell you that the problem has not been numbers.  The fact that us Knights have been getting out collective butts handed to us on a plate this tour is because we are not playing as a team.  While I'm online I see 27 different people doing 27 different things.  less that an hour before your screenshot, The knights held 44, 38, 45, and 46. (why 46, I have no idea, should have taken 39 and 51, but someone probably thought 46 would make a good jump off for an HQ raid)  Also, We had more in numbers than the Bishops.  All those bases fell in a matter of minutes to a determined Bishop team, <S> While the Knights worried about holding 14, boggies over A2 sending the Fleet on a sightseeing tour of 42, and 41, and trying to take out the Bishop HQ.  I can't remember the last time I was online and saw a concerted plan to actually capture an enemy base.  And that's how you win!  (sorry, I was just venting that last bit   )
I guess what I mean to say is:  It's up to us to balance the gameplay, We have the closest thing to a balanced world that can be programmed.
I wonder if there is some way to see how many total players (not just the ones online at the moment) are registered for any given country at any given time?  Maybe there are just less Knights total than the other countries this tour.
.
Bottom line:  We need more strategy, not more balance.

Muttz



Offline Tac

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Game balance: Any plans HTC ?
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2001, 06:04:00 PM »
Welp, I was thinking it might be cooler to have LESS fields and more strat targets.

Say, each side would have 6 cities, 20 factories, roads, supply lines with AI gv's/trains ferrying the stuff, AI goons flying around resupplying bases.

Less fields would mean more planned strikes to bring the other side down..and would also mean bigger and better furballs and at higher alts.

Greg 'wmutt' Cook

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Game balance: Any plans HTC ?
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2001, 06:07:00 PM »
would only work if you made the airfields much harder to take control of, in the event that one side has the numbers.

Muttz

Edit part:  Ya know, I was trying to think of why I see so many resets now as opposed to the last tours, and it hit me.  This terrain, while it is a novel approach, and has a mix of water and land, doesn't really hold up for an MA does it?  Look at the other maps we have had.  The good ones had physical boundaries between the key country areas.  Even looking at a real map, the countries are more often separated by mountain ranges, oceans, or large rivers.
Remember the old Beta terrain?  Those canyons ruled!  Something like that, with oceans thrown in. BTW, how do I get my hands on some of these user-created maps?

[This message has been edited by Greg 'wmutt' Cook (edited 05-22-2001).]

Offline VFJACKAL

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Game balance: Any plans HTC ?
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2001, 07:34:00 PM »
 Next tour Knights may have numbers on the others. (I kind of doubt it but maybe). If so ,then the knights will get maybe one reset for next tour. Easy to lose the war when ya fly around at 30k typing ,and giving each other shi* about things ,while a few are really trying to take ground. Doesn't take long for those folks to get discouraged. Spend less time squeaking about someone else and carrying on about it for 30 minutes and fight. The game is what it is. It's not designed around your wants specifically. There are things that may be wrong. I don't know. But , I do know ,squeaking about it when ya ought to be helping fight ain't doing crap but helping the other side to win.
             Jackal

Offline Staga

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Game balance: Any plans HTC ?
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2001, 08:00:00 PM »
Jackal I'm not sure if your post was for me?

Propably not; This tour I have killed:
4 C-47
4 M-16
7 M-3
18 Ostwinds
12 Panzers

Usually those fly lower than 30k  

Offline VFJACKAL

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Game balance: Any plans HTC ?
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2001, 08:05:00 PM »
No Staga...werent for you bud. You make a valid point. I think the game needs a balance system.   My post was more a gripe than constructive things added to your good post. And , really I should just keep my mouth shut.    You made a good post.  
              Jackal

[This message has been edited by VFJACKAL (edited 05-22-2001).]

Offline iculus

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Game balance: Any plans HTC ?
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2001, 08:21:00 PM »
Wow!  can you say freudian slip

I meant rooks

oh my...lol

<S>IC

Offline AKDejaVu

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Game balance: Any plans HTC ?
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2001, 09:39:00 PM »
There is a wierd thing that happens with Knitland.  I've noticed it on several nights this week.

They have numbers pretty early prime-time from about 2pm pacific to 5pm pacific... then they drop drastically.

The knits are usually taking bases right and left when they have numbers... in case anybody else didn't notice... bish are trying to re-take their own fields.  After about 5pm pacific... most of the knits log off and the tides reverse.

I'm not a big fan of all the gangbanging that goes on right now.  As a result, I haven't been hitting bases nearly as much.  Most of my missions have been more defensive in nature.  Its strange that flying like that, I've killed 3 times as many knits as bish.

AKDejaVu

Offline AKDejaVu

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Game balance: Any plans HTC ?
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2001, 09:40:00 PM »
BTW... my money says those two defenders at 44 held the entire bish nation off for at least an hour.

AKDejaVu

Offline gijeff

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Game balance: Any plans HTC ?
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2001, 10:41:00 AM »
Salute Gents,

Part of the problem IMHO is what I call "itinerant squadrons" or squadrons that rotate countries every tour.  It isn't their fault, but the nature of their movement makes for unballanced play at times.  

I would suggest that these squadrons that move countries coordinate their efforts by posting on the BBS, tallying their numbers, and setting up a rotation schedule in such a way that no country is picked clean of participating squadrons for any given rotation.  Self regulation is the key to avoiding this problem gents.  If every "itinerant squadron" rotates Bish, Rook, Knight, Bish, Rook, Knight, and every squadron makes sure even numbers are in each country each rotation, then most of this issue is solved.  I can tell you from experience that a determined group that flies together regularly and works toward a single goal is going to walk all over a cobbled together group of defenders.  Teamwork on this level cannot be denied, and two to ten guys that just met over an airbase are NOT going to deny this group their goal.

Another problem is the gangbanging or two countries ganging up on one to the exclusion of attacking each other.  This normally self regulates somewhat because there is always some joker that will attack his "ally" and get things started back up all over again on that front.  In addition when a country is on it's knees both the advantaged countries have to jockey for position of having the most bases or they won't win the reset, so the disadvantaged country gets an opportunity to take back ground.

Which brings me to the final problem, the disenchanted logging off, or jumping sides for perks, or just so they can stinking fly since their own country is so disadvantaged it cannot up aircraft in a meaningful way.  I am flying Knight, my squadron flies Knight, and most of my mates fly Knight, ALL the time.  I have seen the numbers shift alot when countries are ganging up, suddenly their ranks swell, or the disadvantaged countries numbers just dwindle.  Alot of Knights are so disgusted this tour I find many of them in the Training Arena just trying to get SOME flying in without frustration overload.  I am quite certain this has occured to other countries in the past as well.

Again self regulation is the key here, HTC could implement some type of perk system that would help disadvantaged countries, but perk planes are not going to give enough advantage to a country outnumbered 2-1 on TWO fronts, NOTHING is, that country is TOAST sooner or later unless both gangbanging countries start fighting each other.

One thing I would like to see is some more coordinated activity on the part of EACH country.  IE someone in charge of the efforts of each countries participants.  I know we love to be individualists, but if nobody is setting strategy or giving orders there is no coherent or goal oriented attacking going on.  
Many times I have seen a huge furball continue, to the exclusion of holding strategic and much needed assets, despite the entreaties of many of us who actually glance at the map once in awhile. We beg, we plead, we threaten, and we still lose strategically important assets because nobody will help with the defense.  

WW2OL (oops, I said a bad word) has attempted to use score to "put someone in charge" but their sim is unfinished, and may not surpass this one due to the ever improving nature of this sim. (doesn't AH ROCK?!)  I dunno if this is the way to go, since score mongers can switch sides to up their stats, but I do think SOMEBODY ought to be making strategic decisions for each country.  

For example, using the above map and Knights point of view someone could say, OK there are 27 of us, 12 of you defend 44, 4 very high interceptors to deal with bombers, 4 low interceptors to deal with fighter/bombers, and 4 osties/tanks to hold against GV attack and fighter bombers.  Another 12 defend 14 in the same way.  Interceptors are NOT to come down to attack fighters, just loiter for bombers. Three of you try a sneak GV attack on any other base to keep them busy defending it.  In this way the defenders are coordinating, and spending their time, which is a limited resource, in the most meaningful way, or doing as much as possible with the least pilots.  When nobody is in charge you get six guys here, five guys there, and 16 in a big furrball somewhere else or worse, single pilots all doing something different.

Just some food for thought from an Ex-Tanker and current Virtual Fighter Pilot.

Jeff Waite
aka GIJeff

Offline Naudet

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Game balance: Any plans HTC ?
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2001, 06:52:00 PM »
I very well know the "knights-timezone-pilot-loss" myself, it seems that many europeans (like me) fly knights and in when the US guys are locking on most of us leave pretty early.

But this would not be as hard, if the bishs and rooks wouldnt normally teamup and hammer onto the knights. Often when i watch the map, u see most fights at the bish/knight and rook/knights front and only a few at the bish/rook front.

But i have an idea why this is so:

In the morning hours (EST time) the knights have a slight to moderate numerical advantage over the other 2 countries (i.e. K:20 R:16 B:15 or like that). And together with a couple of good organized field captures the knights force the Bish/Rooks into the defensive.
This drags the bish/rooks away from a possible bish/rook fight, cause they try to hold their fields.
Now the hours pass by and the knights numbers fall behind the bish/rook numbers, and the bish/rooks notice they can go into the offense. Over the enthusiasm of driving the attackers back, they totaly forget that their is a possible 2nd front for em. Also it is very nice to fight at the front with the most action, cause we will get into the action fast.
In knightsland u face a few problems, u have to defend to front against numbers that are 2-1 or most time more than 3-1. If u now try to defend a field and call for help, this wont work, cause the others are already busy with defending other fields. Coordination is nearly impossible cause everyone is focused on defending the field next to him or simply on staying alive.

This is in my opinion the main reason for the imbalance atm.

But i want to give 2 more things that should be taken into account:

1st In AH u normally need a temporay numerical advantage to capture a field or a good planned mission of a certain scale. So if u would everywere equal out the numbers, u would have the prob that the front would not move a lot. Which would (in my opinion) lead to frustration, cause it seems impossible to break the defenses. After a couple of tries u would switch either to pure A2A or to strategic bombing, cause the attrition wars over the fronts are getting boring.

2nd to set up an effective defense against some of those "kamikazes" attackers can be pretty much ruin all the fun u have in the game. this happens often when a nme CV is next to a field. u see 1 F4U after another come in low and fire rockets and drop bombs to destroy the hangars and ack without thinking about losing a plane, they actually play an attrition war against the field building wiht the guideline "if i fly in again and again and again i will finally bring that field down", no plan no tactic nothing just pure kamikaze. This behaviour is especially frustrating if u r the only defender and u break the 1st attack but than they come in like perls on a chain again and again and u know u will lose cause finally u will run outta ammo or fuel, so u will finally abandom all defences tries if no more defenders show up