Author Topic: Philosophical Question?  (Read 1440 times)

Offline CAP1

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Re: Philosophical Question?
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2008, 07:30:40 AM »
I'm a good guy, the red guys are bad and the only innocents are the n00bs.  If the're red their dead.  It's justified.


but ya see, whether or not your'e the good guy in this case is all dependant on the point of view. the other(red) guys see you as the bad guy. to red guys that see you kill another red guy it may not be justified :D
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Philosophical Question?
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2008, 07:31:41 AM »
I believe the question itself is either improperly worded, or a trick question.

The men in the question have been already labeled 'good' and 'bad' men.
The question then asks who is worse, the 'good' man or the 'bad' one.
By definition, the good man is always better than the bad man.

Now, if the question was:
What is worse - The man who kills people or the man who unintentionally kills "innocent" people in a bid to defeat evil?

Now you have a philosophical question :)






it's the same thing. stop sliptting hairs and answer the question :D
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Philosophical Question?
« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2008, 07:32:57 AM »
I'm much too stupid to be an attorney unfortunately :frown:...

heh.......i have morals.
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Offline Zazen13

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Re: Philosophical Question?
« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2008, 07:39:30 AM »


The premise is rediculous.

Actually to those that think this is a ridiculous question. Wether the original poster realized it or not, a very close variation of this question is asked on psychological profiling tests batteries for certain government intelligence agencies, law enforcement agencies and military intelligence. Don't ask me how I know this please... :noid
« Last Edit: August 04, 2008, 07:42:22 AM by Zazen13 »
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Offline SD67

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Re: Philosophical Question?
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2008, 07:46:41 AM »
The concept of "good" and "bad" is merely a subjective view.
"Good","Evil","Right" and "Wrong" have nothing at all to do with life. They are merely words used to put forth a personal point of view.
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Offline Zazen13

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Re: Philosophical Question?
« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2008, 07:59:10 AM »
The concept of "good" and "bad" is merely a subjective view.
"Good","Evil","Right" and "Wrong" have nothing at all to do with life. They are merely words used to put forth a personal point of view.

Actually that's not really true. There are Universal concepts of "right and wrong" and therefore an absolute morality. Absolute morality is the cornerstone of all dogmatic religions and philosophical belief systems.

Evil is merely the absence of good. Good is the deference of personal self-fulfilment for the altruistic benefit of others. So, in a real sense, evil is just the opposite, it is selfish personal fulfillment no matter what the cost to others.

Well, morality is largely developed individually through socialization. Therefore, it is largely reflective of societal values. Therefore, there is no absolute societal morality, as societies' value systems differ widely across the planet. That's where religion, or if you prefer, philosophical belief systems, come in. The function of religion is to place a "higher" moral template upon the societal value system. These combined with some form of legal system of judgement and enforcement combine to create the moral framework individuals are expected to operate within. Religious morality is the more influential moral force historically because it holds dominion over the absolutes of universal, "rights and wrongs" that know no societal bounds. It does this by establishing a cause and effect relationship between your actions in life toward others and your soul's ultimate fate upon death. Legal and societal morality are not absolute, they are generally based upon popular consensus, tyrannical imposition or some combination of the two.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2008, 08:03:35 AM by Zazen13 »
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Offline Kweassa

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Re: Philosophical Question?
« Reply #36 on: August 04, 2008, 08:40:00 AM »

 The question itself would be meaningless, as the circumstances surrounding each man and the society he is a part of, already pretty much makes it clear that a certain course of action will be taken against a "bad man", despite possible loss of innocent lives, according to the graveness of the situation. Therefore, the attempt to distingush one death to another, is actually an attempt to justify the aftermath of a course of action that may have led to someone's death, and therefore, is immoral from the very start.

 In other words, "questions" are only meaningful if an answer to that certain question may actually change the final outcome. However, in many cases (such as war, or perhaps policemen engaged in a gunfight against criminals) the outcome is already decided: there is no averting the fact that people will be orderd/forced/compelled to kill someone else, whether or not they have any personal moral conflicts inside them. The very situation surrounding them destroys the normal barriers of morality a society holds.

 Thus, before one draws any answers upon facing that very question, one must first decide what they are willing to do about it, if the answer to that question is something their morality cannot accept.

 For instance, you have been assigned to a death squad. You have been ordered to kill innocent people. You feel conflicted whether you should follow the order or not. Under these circumstances, asking oneself "is it right to kill these people or not" is meaningless. The only question that has any meaning is, "am I going to pull the trigger and kill these people or not". The odds are, you will probably pull the trigger anyway, and any question on whether it was right to kill or not, becomes nothing but a series of mental masturbations to somehow justify oneself and feel comfortable about it.

 That, is what the question is about.


Offline dedalos

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Re: Philosophical Question?
« Reply #37 on: August 04, 2008, 11:09:18 AM »
What is worse.  The bad man who kills people or the good man who unintentionally kills "innocent" people in a bid to defeat the bad man?

This is a thinking exercise.  There is no true or right answer.  Just answer what you think and leave it at that.  No agreement shall be reached, but it is interesting to see what and how others think.


But how do you know that the bad man is bad and the good man is good?  Maybe the good man is the bad man but made it look as if the other guy was the bad man so you would go kill him while the presumed good man made some nice profits.  Not talking about WWII here.  Just saying, how do you know the good man is good?  Is it because you may look like him, you are more familiar with him and his ways, or just based on the news?
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Philosophical Question?
« Reply #38 on: August 04, 2008, 01:12:28 PM »
Actually that's not really true. There are Universal concepts of "right and wrong" and therefore an absolute morality. Absolute morality is the cornerstone of all dogmatic religions and philosophical belief systems.

Evil is merely the absence of good. Good is the deference of personal self-fulfilment for the altruistic benefit of others. So, in a real sense, evil is just the opposite, it is selfish personal fulfillment no matter what the cost to others.


Wow, that is the most slavish notion of good possible.  To me, evil is precisely the notion that good is the sacrifice of oneself for another.  If it is to be moral, helping others should come from an overflow of strength and egoistic fulfillment.

Also, it is hardly clear that Universals like "right" and "wrong" make it follow that there's an absolute morality.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2008, 01:25:21 PM by Anaxogoras »
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Offline Zazen13

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Re: Philosophical Question?
« Reply #39 on: August 04, 2008, 02:48:06 PM »
To me, evil is precisely the notion that good is the sacrifice of oneself for another.  .

Jesus will be very sad to hear that he was in fact evil... :huh
« Last Edit: August 04, 2008, 03:32:10 PM by Zazen13 »
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Offline Erkel

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Re: Philosophical Question?
« Reply #40 on: August 04, 2008, 03:13:32 PM »
Put a gun in my hand, point me in the right direction, tell me I can't eat till they're dead, I'll start shooting at the first thing that moves.
What if the Hokey Pokey's REALLY what it's all about...

Offline Sloehand

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Re: Philosophical Question?
« Reply #41 on: August 04, 2008, 03:37:37 PM »
sniffs bait, turns and swims away.


Most Excellent   :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Offline Sloehand

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Re: Philosophical Question?
« Reply #42 on: August 04, 2008, 03:39:00 PM »
heh.......i have morals.

I have toejamakes.  Let's make mushroom soup.   :D
Jagdgeschwader 77

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Offline Sloehand

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Re: Philosophical Question?
« Reply #43 on: August 04, 2008, 03:42:57 PM »
Word police at it again.  the word was "shi-ta-ke", a type of mushroom.  Let's see if this gets vulgarized.
Jagdgeschwader 77

"You sleep safe in your beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do you harm."  - George Orwell
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Offline Zazen13

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Re: Philosophical Question?
« Reply #44 on: August 04, 2008, 03:46:08 PM »
Word police at it again.  the word was "shi-ta-ke", a type of mushroom.  Let's see if this gets vulgarized.

Haha too funny ... :)
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Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc