yak9u vs 109f

[trotter]

The Yak U advantage is that it has atleast one form of fighting vs almost any other fighter that it can take advantage off



  Gixer, could you explain this further. 

This avenue of thinking shouldn't be restricted to just the Yaks. In any plane v plane matchup, there is a good chance that your plane can do something better than the opponent's plane. There are, of course, exceptions, and a prudent way to fly is to limit the number of 1v1 engagements you have in which you are disadvantaged in such an "exception". SA comes into play here in the main arenas, picking the fighting style advantageous to not only your current situation, but the situation that will develop in the immediate future.

Having an advantage in one flight aspect doesn't necessarily guarentee victory, nor does having a disadvantage guarentee defeat. Having disadvantages in ALL aspects does not guarentee defeat, as pilot skill is the trump card. Given equal pilot skill, and fighting from a situation in which your plane is outclassed in every aspect, it is best to choose the route of best comparative advantage. Think back to basic economics.

For example, in our 109F vs. Yak-9U scenario, the 109F has an advantage in both sustained flat turn and climb rate. Let's say, as the Yak pilot, you had no choice but to fight either a low speed horizontal fight, or a more vertical fight, hoping to establish and stick to a "perch". Which would you choose? The 109 betters your plane in both turn and climb rate.

The logical answer is to choose the fight where there is the smallest possible discrepancy in flight performance . IE, you're going to fight a fight where the 109 has an advantage either way, fight the fight where the 109 has the smallest advantage. In choosing either flat sustained turn or vertical, the 109 blows the Yak out of the water in flat sustained turn, but climb rates are more closely matched. Choose the vertical fight.

Of course this is all made irrelevant in the 109 vs Yak equation, because the truly logical choice for the Yak would be to get the fight to higher speeds where the 109 starts having elevator unresponsiveness. But you get the point...what I'm getting at is
1- Look for your plane's advantage in every engagement, and seek to utilize it offensively (important)
2- If no advantage (rare but possible), choose the fight where the opponent has the least advantage.

[SuBWaYCH]

Really, what you need to do against an 109F is TRY to keep the fight in somewhat of a vertical (this is not what I do, but its what your supposed to do). Yak-9U has a very good speed advantage over a 109F, so use it. In a flat turn, you are in somewhat of a tougher spot. Your advantage will be earlier on, when you still have some speed, so on that first 180-360 degrees, you need to capitalize. Yak9-U's 20mm ShVAK cannon is quite deadly close in. 109F has all advantages after the first 180-360 degrees or so, unless he can't turn the damn thing. To try to keep up, you'll need to use elevator trim and flaps (if you get slow enough to deploy them).

One thing that is good is that many pilots underestimate the Yak-9U, which can be of a help in the fight.

This is only what i've experienced.

[jerkins]

Really, what you need to do against an 109F is TRY to keep the fight in somewhat of a vertical (this is not what I do, but its what your supposed to do). Yak-9U has a very good speed advantage over a 109F, so use it. In a flat turn, you are in somewhat of a tougher spot. Your advantage will be earlier on, when you still have some speed, so on that first 180-360 degrees, you need to capitalize. Yak9-U's 20mm ShVAK cannon is quite deadly close in. 109F has all advantages after the first 180-360 degrees or so, unless he can't turn the damn thing. To try to keep up, you'll need to use elevator trim and flaps (if you get slow enough to deploy them).

One thing that is good is that many pilots underestimate the Yak-9U, which can be of a help in the fight.

This is only what i've experienced.

I dont think I would take the fight vertical. the 109f has better climb than either yak.

I dont fly the yak much, but when I do, I scissor the thing like crazy when I get slow. Both rolling and flat seem to work pretty well.  And oh yeah, when I fly the yak, its the 9T.

[df54]

   


   i use the vertical  but 109 can turn a tighter loop than yak so it can
   get around faster and im stuck with a head-on.

[Ack-Ack]

I dont think I would take the fight vertical. the 109f has better climb than either yak.

Don't confuse climb performance with vertical performance.  The better climber doesn't always equate to being better in the vertical.  An example is the P-38, slightly above average climb performance but yet one of the best, if not the best, vertical fighter in the game.  The 109G series planes can all out climb the P-38 but can't match it in the vertical.


ack-ack

[SuBWaYCH]

Don't confuse climb performance with vertical performance.  The better climber doesn't always equate to being better in the vertical.  An example is the P-38, slightly above average climb performance but yet one of the best, if not the best, vertical fighter in the game.  The 109G series planes can all out climb the P-38 but can't match it in the vertical.


ack-ack

Spot on ack ack. Thats something a lot of people confuse.

[Hazard69]

Spot on ack ack. Thats something a lot of people confuse.

And I'm one of them 

Could you please elaborate a bit more on that Ack-Ack. I'd like to know how my P38 can outperform the 109s in the vertical? All I can think of here is perhaps a spiral climb against the 109s torque?
Ever since the FM update the 109s seem to have become a lot better in the horizontal and somewhat in the vertical also (as compared to earlier) and Ive been having trouble keeping up.

Thanks in advance 

[jerkins]

Don't confuse climb performance with vertical performance.  The better climber doesn't always equate to being better in the vertical.  An example is the P-38, slightly above average climb performance but yet one of the best, if not the best, vertical fighter in the game.  The 109G series planes can all out climb the P-38 but can't match it in the vertical.


ack-ack

Maybe I'm way off, but I would guess you are saying the vertical performance is greatly affected by the ability to zoom climb, which is of course true. 

p38 is roughly 17500 lbs. 
109 is roughly 7000 lbs. 

Zoom climb basically depends on momentum, and horsepower of the plane. You could say that altitude attainable is proportional to mass x velocity + thrust.  This is not the exact equation (too much math for this purpose). 

The other factor I see coming into play is torque.  At the top of a climb, or just anytime you are near stall speed, the 109 is going to be fighting torque like crazy.  The 38 does not have this issue.

So looking at these factors, the 38 is looking pretty good.  10000 lbs heavier and no torque issues.

Now the yak has a comparable weight to the 109 (IIRC).  So its ability to out zoom is not going to be as pronounced.  Also the yak will be facing torque, maybe not as much as the 109, but it will be an issue.

Please correct me above if I am wrong.

IMO I think the 109f could hang with the yak in the vert, and the fight would eventually get slow.  Now is when the sustained climb of the 109 would come into play.  Once this occurred, the yak should low yo yo or similar to get its speed up and even the odds a bit.

[Ack-Ack]

Maybe I'm way off, but I would guess you are saying the vertical performance is greatly affected by the ability to zoom climb, which is of course true. 

p38 is roughly 17500 lbs. 
109 is roughly 7000 lbs. 

Zoom climb basically depends on momentum, and horsepower of the plane. You could say that altitude attainable is proportional to mass x velocity + thrust.  This is not the exact equation (too much math for this purpose). 

The other factor I see coming into play is torque.  At the top of a climb, or just anytime you are near stall speed, the 109 is going to be fighting torque like crazy.  The 38 does not have this issue.

So looking at these factors, the 38 is looking pretty good.  10000 lbs heavier and no torque issues.

Now the yak has a comparable weight to the 109 (IIRC).  So its ability to out zoom is not going to be as pronounced.  Also the yak will be facing torque, maybe not as much as the 109, but it will be an issue.

Please correct me above if I am wrong.

IMO I think the 109f could hang with the yak in the vert, and the fight would eventually get slow.  Now is when the sustained climb of the 109 would come into play.  Once this occurred, the yak should low yo yo or similar to get its speed up and even the odds a bit.

Pretty good layman's description and I agree that the 109 should be able to match the Yak in the vertical. 

I just wanted to point out that because a plane has a stellar climb rate, that climb rate doesn't always mean that plane will perform the same way in the vertical.  This applies to all aircraft in the game, not just specific ones.

A lot of players seem to get them both confused and automatically assume the best climber is the best vertical fighter.  I got into a fight the other night with a LA-7 driver, he tried to Energy fight me by taking the fight into the vertical where he didn't last long at all.  He got upset because he assumed that since the LA-7 was the better climber, he should have been all over me in a vertical fight, especially when he was 50mph IAS faster on the merge. 


ack-ack

[SuBWaYCH]

I"m pretty sure Yak turns better to the left, while the 109 turns better to the right. I could be mistaken, but I remember reading that somewhere.

[Oldman731]

I"m pretty sure Yak turns better to the left, while the 109 turns better to the right. I could be mistaken, but I remember reading that somewhere.

Just the reverse.

- oldman

[Gixer]

Against 109s in Yak U basically if your not faster then the particular 109 model your up against you can out turn/maneuver it. Yak-9T is a different ball game, often it's only advantage is the snapshot and possibly turn rate depending on the 109 version.

Yak U you normally have options against 109s and almost any other aircraft for that matter. Yak T it's often scissors,rolls and snap shots.


<S>...-Gixer

[SuBWaYCH]

Just the reverse.

- oldman

So confusing sometimes!!!

thank you for pointing that out.   

[df54]

   

  yak cant outurn 109

[Motherland]

Depends on what 109... IIRC, turn-radius-wise, the Yak9U out turns the 109G6 and later.