Author Topic: Mythbusters On Talking Planes Down  (Read 2515 times)

Offline CAP1

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Re: Mythbusters On Talking Planes Down
« Reply #60 on: August 19, 2008, 07:34:59 PM »
i recon i could land a plane myself, however that would just be the basics, flaps, gear, brakes etc.... any other controls/buttons might cause issues....

COULD you then, please describe the landing procedure? start on the downwind leg. assume you're flying a simple airplane.....a cessna172. nothing fancy, simple 160hp lycoming 4 cylinder, fixed prop, fixed gear.

feel free to be as detailed as yo think is necessary
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Mythbusters On Talking Planes Down
« Reply #61 on: August 19, 2008, 07:36:00 PM »
what? Ive flown real planes before, its "not that hard"....

ok...then my previous question stands, but add a 10kt crossiwind component :D
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Mythbusters On Talking Planes Down
« Reply #62 on: August 19, 2008, 07:40:13 PM »
Ensign ELIMINATOR.

Even with SOME training in light aircraft, as well as having flown AH and AW before it, not to mention driving very fast race cars of various types for 25 years or more, I have NO delusions about being able to actually FLY a piston engine fighter. I know about enough to get myself killed, and take out a priceless aircraft in the process. I was talking to Steve Hinton a while back, and he said once you learned to fly in something like a Cessna, you'd probably be ready for a couple of hundred hours in something like an AT-6, and then, MAYBE some dual control time in a real fighter.

Always said if I won a big lottery, I'd like to find a P-38 to have restored. But I also figured I'd buy something entry level like a Cessna (1), get my time and my tickets, sell it, buy a nice Baron (2), and then pick up an AT-6(3). I figure I could transition 1,2,3, and then go get lessons from Hinton or some one like him while they finished restoring my plane. It'd REALLY suck to hit the lottery, get the plane of my dreams, and then kill myself and wreck the plane the first day out.

good points. i fly cessna172N, P, A, and B. i also fly cessna 152, have some time in a cherokee six, a little in a super decathalon(back seat), and some time in a schweizer cb300.

 i'm fairly average to good for my hours(200 or so), and given the chance to hop into any piston engined fighter, and try to fly it, i'd turn around and walk away.
 there is no way that you could just get in one of those magnificant machines and fly it without having first been trained properly.
ingame 1LTCAP
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Offline Cougar68

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Re: Mythbusters On Talking Planes Down
« Reply #63 on: August 19, 2008, 07:52:49 PM »
what? Ive flown real planes before, its "not that hard"....

How many hours do you have in real planes?  I'm guessing not very many.....

It's true that it's not that hard to grab the yoke and point it about the sky.  The training and skill comes into play when you're low and slow on approach to land.  All it takes is one downdraft on short final or a stiff crosswind gust and and untrained pilot would be yelling for mommy and trying to pull the seat cushion out of his backside. 

Offline Golfer

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Re: Mythbusters On Talking Planes Down
« Reply #64 on: August 19, 2008, 08:00:00 PM »
COULD you then, please describe the landing procedure? start on the downwind leg. assume you're flying a simple airplane.....a cessna172. nothing fancy, simple 160hp lycoming 4 cylinder, fixed prop, fixed gear.

feel free to be as detailed as yo think is necessary

Feeling better about yourself yet?

Offline Talon07

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Re: Mythbusters On Talking Planes Down
« Reply #65 on: August 19, 2008, 08:11:41 PM »
Hey cap. Starting on a right downwind abreast of the middle of the strip at 1000 feet. Fly paralell to the strip past the threshold broadcast a base leg and throttle back. Descend to roughly 500 feet. Broadcast and turn final. throttle back lower flaps and use throttle as necessary to maintain glideslope. I'll assume a 10 knot crosswind from the right. So "weathercock into the wind. Lower the right wing so the wind can't get under it and maintain forward direction with left rudder. When just about to flare kick the rudder back to straighten out for touchdown. Taxi to the parking apron and pull the mixture lever out to kill the motor.
Ok how'd I do ;)
Regards FBClaw
I'm not trained on powered planes btw.
FBClaw of the Freebirds

Offline Overlag

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Re: Mythbusters On Talking Planes Down
« Reply #66 on: August 19, 2008, 08:17:52 PM »
ok...then my previous question stands, but add a 10kt crossiwind component :D

= crash ;)

and anyway, what is all this fuss about?

Someone who has flown sims for 1000s of hours and/or had some basic flying hrs in a cessna will have a HELL of alot more chance of "helping" than someone that doesnt know how to go up and down in a plane.

at least they know the basics, for instance im sure a high percentage of us simmers would know that you wouldnt want to be landing a 737 at 300KIAS....
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 08:23:50 PM by Overlag »
Adam Webb - 71st (Eagle) Squadron RAF Wing B
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Mythbusters On Talking Planes Down
« Reply #67 on: August 19, 2008, 09:00:57 PM »
How many hours do you have in real planes?  I'm guessing not very many.....

It's true that it's not that hard to grab the yoke and point it about the sky.  The training and skill comes into play when you're low and slow on approach to land.  All it takes is one downdraft on short final or a stiff crosswind gust and and untrained pilot would be yelling for mommy and trying to pull the seat cushion out of his backside. 

just for the record, most wind related landing accidents are with less than 6kt crosswind component
ingame 1LTCAP
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Mythbusters On Talking Planes Down
« Reply #68 on: August 19, 2008, 09:01:32 PM »
Feeling better about yourself yet?

should i be?
ingame 1LTCAP
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Offline Hawker25

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Re: Mythbusters On Talking Planes Down
« Reply #69 on: August 19, 2008, 09:09:04 PM »
as a pilot with several rating and being typed in several different aircraft i have to say i totally agree with the others on the this forum that the sim is nothing like the real thing.  I believe sims have there place but not teaching you how to fly, they are for teaching you procedures, checklists, and in the big sims you learn CRM.  I think one of the toughest things would be i think jumping into the pilot seat of an unfamiliar airplane is what are all the V speeds, and if you don't know what a V speed is then you are in even bigger trouble than you know.   Also what about characteristics of that airplane.  Like do you know that if you go below Vmc in a Twin Comanche on 1 engine that it has a real nasty habit of snapping into an unrecoverable flat spin.  Now all this being said i think someone who "flys" sims might have a leg up on someone who never has, but the dirty little secret the sim developers never tell you is without proper instruction while in those sims you are probably developing and reinforcing bad habits and techniques.

Rabbit27
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 09:27:01 PM by Hawker25 »

Offline CAP1

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Re: Mythbusters On Talking Planes Down
« Reply #70 on: August 19, 2008, 09:16:40 PM »
Hey cap. Starting on a right downwind abreast of the middle of the strip at 1000850 ft. most small GA aircraft at non-towered airports fly patterns 850AGL feet. Fly paralell to the strip past the threshold broadcast a base leg and throttle back.reduce throttle abeam of your aimpoint on the runway. as soon as your speed is in the white arc, 10 degrees flaps, trim for descent. this should be happening before you pass the threshold. at approx. 70o ft, and at a 45 degree angle to the threshold, turn base. add another 10 degrees flaps, re-trim. Descend to roughly 500 feet. Broadcast and turn final.throttle should lready be reduced. once below 500 ft, you should be stabalised, and final flaps out, no further configuration changes. you should not have to work the throttle here throttle back lower flaps and use throttle as necessary to maintain glideslope. I'll assume a 10 knot crosswind from the right. So "weathercock into the wind. Lower the right wing so the wind can't get under it and maintain forward direction with left rudder.i'm surprised you know these, but you;re mixin a foward slip with a crab. on final, i crab...actually i let the airplane work for me..it weathervanes all by itself, and the prop thrust keeps me headed where i want to go. when i'm about 200 yards from the threshold, i convert to a foward slip. rudder opposite of the wind, then dip the upwind wing to maintain your heading. now you're set up for the landing. keep the aircraft centered using the aielerons, and the nose straight using the rudder. maintain this attitude til the flare, then lift the nose slightly, keeping everything else centered and lined up. When just about to flare kick the rudder back to straighten out for touchdown. Taxi to the parking apron and pull the mixture lever out to kill the motor. shutdown checklist. electrical, nav, com, etc should be off before engine shutdown.
Ok how'd I do ;)
Regards FBClaw
I'm not trained on powered planes btw.

better than i expected......... :D :aok but i've added corrections within the body of your text.\

like i said, you did much better than i expected. :aokf or that.
the crosswinds throw a lot of experienced pilots off. most average pilots have trouble with anything above 6 or 7 kts. i can do 5-6 comfortably, up to 8 working a bit, and at 10, i'm sweating.

almost forgot..in a cessna, speeds.....downwind=80-90..my preference is 80, initial descent, 75, base and long final, 70, short final 65, cross the threshold at about 55, aircraft stalls at about 46   with 30 degrees flaps out.

WTG sir!
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 09:19:44 PM by CAP1 »
ingame 1LTCAP
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Offline Dinan

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Re: Mythbusters On Talking Planes Down
« Reply #71 on: August 19, 2008, 09:28:29 PM »
You're instructor must be very proud.   :rofl

Are you the latest rendition of 1CAVd, or whatever his name was?
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 09:30:13 PM by Dinan »

Offline CAP1

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Re: Mythbusters On Talking Planes Down
« Reply #72 on: August 19, 2008, 09:36:45 PM »
You're instructor must be very proud.   :rofl

Are you the latest rendition of 1CAVd, or whatever his name was?


nope. i'm me. always have been.

i'm only trying to make a point to those that think landing an airplane is easy. it's actually the single hardest part of flying an airplane, and unless a b24, b17, ju88, and lancs all land easier than a cessna, it's not that realistic in the arenas.
ingame 1LTCAP
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Offline Talon07

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Re: Mythbusters On Talking Planes Down
« Reply #73 on: August 19, 2008, 09:38:44 PM »
Trained in gliders. Soloed just before my 17th birthday. Have some nice flights in an old blanik. Been flying with some friends from an aero club near where I live. So yeah.
Regards FBClaw
FBClaw of the Freebirds

Offline RTR

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Re: Mythbusters On Talking Planes Down
« Reply #74 on: August 20, 2008, 01:00:21 AM »
heh. well....I've been flying in one form or another since I was 8 years old. (started in Gliders, dad was an instuctor and all our family friends were in the club). My flying experience has been posted here before.

I wouldn't even entertain the thought that I could get a real F4U off the ground without killing myself. It's just not a realistic scenario. I don't have the experience or skill.

Sorry to burst the bubble of any cartoon pilots, but the reality is AH doesn't teach you to fly. It does an admirable job of teaching you about flying, but it won't make you able to land (or take-off) any aircraft without a considerable amount of help from a qualified instructor.

What I do here and what I do "there" are two very different things.

cheers,
RTR
The Damned