Time to upgrade need advise

[Fulmar]

In the words of BaldEagl and Getback...
"Building a computer?

MUST....OVER....CLCOK"

[BaldEagl]

It is not the total power, and I should have clarified that.  If 90% of that power draw is from one rail then that rail better be really beefy.  The power supply he is choosing is around 70% efficiency, so a 30% overhead is needed to provide clean power.

The 3.3V for that supply supplies 22A (max).  That is only 72.6W.  The one 12V rail for the CPU is rated at 14A, which is 168W and the other 12V rail is rated at 15A, which is 180W.

Those are maximum ratings.  Now at 70% capacity which is the true maximum before power is not clean anymore, it goes down to the following maximums.

3.3V = 50.8W
12V1 = 117.6W
12V2 = 126W

The Radeon HD3850 draws 95W peak power off the 12V rail.  In my opinion that is getting very close to the edge.  It just does not leave much overhead.

I looked at the PSU last night and at first had similar concerns.  The problem is, in that price range there's not a lot of better options.  Even the PCP&C supplies in that range are lower in amperage on the 12V rail(s).

While it may be close, I think it will work for him.  I'd give it a try.

[Fulmar]

EMAIL UPDATE:
My daily Newegg newsletter told me that the exact motherboard we picked out and the E8400 are on a combo sale (save $15).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128337
You have to go to "Combo Deals" on the bottom left corner of that page and check mark that combo to get the discount.

[Fulmar]

Also, some larger power supplies are on sale.
http://promotions.newegg.com/NEemail/Aug-0-2008/Promo082208in/index-landing.html?nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL082208&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL082208-_-email-_-E0C-_-Moredeals

[BaldEagl]

Also, some larger power supplies are on sale.
http://promotions.newegg.com/NEemail/Aug-0-2008/Promo082208in/index-landing.html?nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL082208&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL082208-_-email-_-E0C-_-Moredeals

The Coursair and OCZ PSU's both look like they'd do the job and net out around the same price as the Thermaltake.

We knew you were good for something 

[Skuzzy]

Not sure where you got the idea that DDR2-800 is clocked at 400Mhz.  It isn't.  The memory bus clock rate for DDR2-800 (PC6400) is 200Mhz.  The I/O bus clock rate is 400Mhz.

DDR2-1066 (PC8500) is runs at a memory clock of 266Mhz and an I/O clockrate of 533Mhz.  Turth is, DDR2-1066 is not fast enough to match the memory bus speed for the E8500, but it is good stable RAM and the system will run faster with it, if the memory controller supports the higher speed memory bus.

For DDR2 RAM, the I/O clock is always double the memory bus clock speed.  That may be where the confusion lies.  If you want to read more about how DDR2 RAM works, here is a decent explanation for it.

Now you want more confusion?  DDR3-800 is clocked at 100Mhz with the I/O bus clocked at 400Mhz.

[Stogie]

I haven't ordered this today yet.  Power supply is a concern so I am going to be changing that to something higher.  I've seen what dirty power can do.  Seems like this is one of Skuzzy's pet irritants. How high wattage should I go for this setup?

I can always add or change memory. I chose the G.Skill Memory cause it was part of a combo and runs with this setup.  I'm open for suggestions but do want to stay as close to budget as possible but not at the expense of crippling a new system.

I have absolutely no plans to Overclock this machine ever.

[Fulmar]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR2
You're confusing Memory clock with Bus clock.  That article is I believe old and busted.  If 100mhz were true, than almost every computer out there, even your Dell/HP would be running at less than a 1:1 ratio, almost a 1:2.

Not as technical, but cements my idea about the numbers we're running here.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/240001-29-howto-overclock-quads-duals-guide
"3. Memory
You will need memory that can keep up with your overclocked system.  Again, I’m not going to keep a list.  You’ll see RAM listed with timings and speeds that I’ll decode for you using the following examples: "
DDR2-800 (PC2-6400) 4-4-4-12
DDR2-1066 (PC2-8500) 5-5-5-15
The first part is self-explanatory (DDR2 memory).
• The number after it is the data transfer rate.  Simply divide it by 2 to get the maximum FSB speed for which the module is rated.  Example: 800/2 = 400 MHz.  Therefore, DDR2-800 can work on systems with a FSB of up to 400 MHz (anything more and you’re lucky).
• The PC2-XXXX is designation denoting theoretical bandwidth in MB/s.  Some memory manufactures use this instead of the DDR2-xxx designation.  You can calculate it for any FSB you want by simply taking the FSB and multiplying by 16 (rounded in some cases).  Example using a 400 MHz FSB: 400x16=6400.  So you’d need at least PC2-6400 to run on a FSB of 400 MHz.

-

When I go into my BIOS and do an auto-sync feature (1:1) with FSB/RAM.  My E6400 with a 1066mhz FSB is bumped to 1333mhz because I run 667mhz DDR2.

[Skuzzy]

According to Newegg's spec sheet, the motherboard will support DDR2-1066 memory as a standard RAM speed.  It shows DDR-1200, but only for overclocked systems.

Power supplies are a big hot button of mine.  I cannot tell you how many times I see people put together nice systems only to be screwed by using the wrong power supply.  I have a guy I am dealing with right now who has lockup problems out the wazoo.  His systems requires more power than yours, but the builder put some 500W no-name power supply in it.  Runs Word and Excel just fine, but every DirectX app just locks the computer up.

The Thermaltake unit is on the edge.  I would probably bite the bullet and go ahead with the 610W PC Power and Cooling Silencer.  It costs more, but it should handle this system just fine.

[Stogie]

Skuzzy I compared the power supply that you linked to this one:
 
OCZ GameXStream OCZ600GXSSLI 600W ATX12V Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341001&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL082208&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL082208-_-PowerSupplies-_-L2A-_-17341001
 About the same price but there is a special on it which would save a little cash, one thing I saw was the OCZ has 4 rails where the one you linked had one.  Would the OCZ work as well?

As for memory I guess I want to look at is DDR2-1066 (PC2-8500)?

[Skuzzy]

Ok Fulmar, let me try a simpler approach.

PC2-6400 (DDR2-800 SDRAM); Clock Speed: 200MHz, Data Rate: 800MHz, Through-put 6400MB/s
PC2-8500 (DDR2-1066 SDRAM): Clock Speed: 233Mhz, Data Rate: 1066Mhz, Through-put 8500MB/s

[Fulmar]

DDR2-800, 200mhz would be the memory clock speed.  400mhz would be the bus clock speed.
DDR2-667, 167 mhz memory clock speed, 333mhz bus clock speed -> E8400 bus speed 333mhz (quad pumped to 1333mhz).  1:1

[BaldEagl]

Ok Fulmar, let me try a simpler approach.

PC2-6400 (DDR2-800 SDRAM); Clock Speed: 200MHz, Data Rate: 800MHz, Through-put 6400MB/s
PC2-8500 (DDR2-1066 SDRAM): Clock Speed: 233Mhz, Data Rate: 1066Mhz, Through-put 8500MB/s

OK.  The point I was getting at is that linked and synced CPU to RAM he'd need to get to a 1600 FSB to match his DDR2 800 RAM (my mistake... matching I/O bus clocks, not core clocks at 400).

I don't see what buying even faster RAM does for him unless he were going to clock even higher.

[Stogie]

Ok I changed the Memory and the Power Supply

Memory

G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231144

Yes I know I should go with 4 GB Ram but I can always add that later.  I have been using 1GB and that has worked well for what I use this for.  2 GB should be fine for me for awhile.

PSU
OCZ GameXStream OCZ600GXSSLI 600W ATX12V Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341001&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL082208&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL082208-_-PowerSupplies-_-L2A-_-17341001

There is a sale going on for the OCZ PSU and I saw that it had 4 rails instead of 1 that the one that Skuzzy linked.  I did read a post that Skuzzy made about marketing ploys that some PSU vendors use so I'm not real sure that this PSU is the one to use.  If not I'll just use the one that Skuzzy linked.

I really want to get this ordered today but the power supply choice is the only thing holding me off.

[Fulmar]

Stogie, DDR2 800 will work just fine.  It's $6 difference between 800mhz and 1066mhz.  You can purchase either or, but you won't see any performance difference.  The faster ram would let you overclock to a faster speed, but you don't seem like the overclocking type.

And that is a better choice on a PSU.  OCZ is a pretty good brand and that would be adequate power for either video card you choose.