Author Topic: Sending Salutes  (Read 671 times)

Offline dkff49

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Sending Salutes
« on: August 25, 2008, 12:22:45 AM »
Great fights in MA last night. I know it can be kind of rare to get a really good fight in LW let alone 2 of them within a few mintues of each other.
One with mtnman, completely awesome in that F4U, though I know he just let me hang on as long as I did.

<SALUTE> mtnman

The other was RedHawk definitely knows how to make that N1K move, shocked me to see a N1K so well flown.

<SALUTE> RedHawk

Made my night end on a very good note.

thnx
Haxxor has returned!!!!
Dave
        

Offline Sloehand

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Re: Sending Salutes
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2008, 01:17:07 AM »
You ran into two of the very best, flying in their very best.  Both are at the very advanced trainer level and school people everytime they go up.  :rofl

ReDhAwK especially, as an old squadmate, has taught me everything about how to handle the NiK1 gracefully... as it slowly flips and flutters to the ground, missing wings or tail, and blazing afire.   :O
Jagdgeschwader 77

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"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Offline Lord ReDhAwK

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Re: Sending Salutes
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2008, 01:50:19 AM »
Salute dk,

Was a great fight sir!  Like I said on the radio...found nothing but boring fights...then WHAMMO!  It was on!  Made my night  :rock 

Heya Sloehand, wings falling off and flaming while fluttering to earth has NEVER been a class of mine  :devil 

Stop adding to my curriculum  :noid

ReDhAwK
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The Aggressors

Offline dkff49

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Re: Sending Salutes
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2008, 09:52:05 AM »
You ran into two of the very best, flying in their very best.  Both are at the very advanced trainer level and school people everytime they go up.  :rofl

ReDhAwK especially, as an old squadmate, has taught me everything about how to handle the NiK1 gracefully... as it slowly flips and flutters to the ground, missing wings or tail, and blazing afire.   :O

oh I was definitely schooled. The fights were fun, back to back, and surprised me that I lasted as long as I did to them. I must have been at my best last night, or very lucky to have lasted long enough to have such good fights
Haxxor has returned!!!!
Dave
        

Offline mtnman

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Re: Sending Salutes
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2008, 01:34:33 PM »
Hi dkff-

I just sent you that film you requested.  I added a bit of explanation too.

Definately a fun fight, and I appreciated AKDG staying out (although it would have been fun either way...).  It probably could have been posted here for some critiquing, but I figured I'd leave it up to you...  Nothing super fancy involved, but we both made mistakes that could be learned from.

<S>

MtnMan
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"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not". Thomas Jefferson

Offline dkff49

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Re: Sending Salutes
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2008, 02:57:15 PM »
Sorry for delayed response guys but was doing some work for a family member yesterday then later had to sit in emergency room with wife after she fell and was there until 1am. She is fine and thankfully has no broken bones but will be off work for at least 2 weeks.

Anyway on subject:

Here is the film with Mtnman from the fight that I mentioned in the original post.

http://files.filefront.com/F4U1A+vs+dkffahf/;11613914;/fileinfo.html

Thank you very much for sending me that film, I have now set a button to my stick for recording film (now I just need to remember to use it ;) ). I veiwed it for the first time today (see above reason) and my relatively unexperienced mind did notice a few mistakes that were made in fight.

For me the big things I noticed was recognizing your stalls (which I noticed 2 while watching film) and pressing the attack during these. I also noticed that I don't do a very good job keeping you from getting those guns out in front of me. Those places you put the hits on my plane were completely avoidable if I had pulled above you just a little more (this point here is also my inability to recognize when I am giving up a guns solution).

As far as the ones you made the only one that I was able to detect was the one you and I discussed after the fight. Which was climbing to a stall in order to obtain a shot. This happened 2 times and worked out both times for you mostly due to my mistake listed above.

Since this may also be a good learning tool for the masses I hope you don't mind me copying in the body of the email you sent, in order for others to get the idea what good SA is and does for you.

Body of email

Here's that film of our fight last night.  I'm going to add some comments here, simply because I'm guessing you want to look at it from a "learning" perspective, rather than just for "entertainment". If you watch it with my views enabled it looks like I was having trouble keeping an eye on you in the beginning.  In reality,  I was watching for AKDG in his pony quite a bit at first, at least until he texted and I figured he was going to stay out.  I thought it was going to be a 2v1 at first, and that would have affected my decisions on how to handle you... As the fight progresses you'll see me look off to the right too, hoping for a view of the B25.  I was concerned he was going to enter the fight too. And another obvious point where I was scanning for other planes is where I use my "up" view as I stall/roll to the left with you right in front of me. The reason I point those out is because SA is so important, especially if I'm going to commit to a slow flight.  I knew I was close to your field (possible "lifters"), I knew of at least 2 other planes in the area (pony and B25).  Unfortunately, the clipboard doesn't show in the film, because I also flipped it up/down a few times to check DAR (maybe more friendlies, or a red dar-bar would pop up).  You also can't readily see that as we turned in our flight I was looking around/beyond you for other planes too. The reason all that matters is because if you look at the fight progression, you started with alt and speed.  That altered to a point where we had basically equal alt and speed, and stayed there.  I could have changed that though, and taken advantage of a few points where I could have exited, extended, or taken over with an E advantage.  Had others joined in I would have used different tactics... The film is fun to watch, but to really learn from it you need to try to see the "whys

BTW: I know many people think good fights are extremely rare and I was extremely lucky. Well this was most likely pure luck to have two really fun fights within several minutes of each other. On the other hand I did put a little effort into creating a scenario where the odds were a little more in my favor.  The first fight which was the one with mtnman, now I don't know if he knew this or not but he actually started out above me before the film started. I am going to assume though that he did see me down low, just taking off from the field and did not engage. I assume here that he did this in order to push the odds a little further towards getting a decent fight. Now I climbed out to an alt higher than him before returning, it was not my intent to be higher. I was indeed trying to be more equal in alt and speed, for the purpose of pushing it toward a decent fight. The second fight I went to a base that had no uppers yet and flew through the radar ring hoping to coax up an upper or two. Once I saw one upper I allowed him to climb out and away from base hoping to also get a good fight, which worked both times. Though I did have some alt advantage when I did engage both, it was not my intent to have any great advantage when engaging.

My point is in order to find a decent fight most times you need to put forth a little extra effort and planning to find it. I think a lot of people who complain about finding a decent fight have a tendancy to look over the map looking for fights that have already started, not giving it a chance to go out starting one. Again I am not trying to say that all that express their inability to find a good fight is their fault but I do think that many of those that have a hard time at it don't put forth any extra effort to find it (again not all).

<S> all thanks for listening

I welcome any further comments on film. Whether it be advice or questions or just general comments.

mtnman I may be looking you up some time to help me further my abilities and knowledge

again
<S> and Thanks to mtnman and redhawk for some of the best fun I have had last night.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2008, 03:20:35 PM by dkff49 »
Haxxor has returned!!!!
Dave
        

Offline mtnman

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Re: Sending Salutes
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2008, 12:19:21 PM »
It's funny you mentioned that...  I did see you lift, and purposely left you alone hoping you'd climb for a fight.  I was loitering around 10K or so, and after I lost sight of you I dropped down to 6K or so to look more tempting.  I also moved further from your field once I realized someone had lifted.  I actually hung around over there for 10 minutes or so hoping someone would lift or RTB...

Yea, I was definately getting greedy and hanging myself out...  I do that too much.  A few times had you recognized that you could have ended the fight, and at least once you reversed direction at a very opportune time for me.

Look me up, and we'll go play in the TA.  I'm having some internet troubles, but hope to have them resolved by Friday, and to be able to log on to play on Sunday night.  Depending on how that goes, I may not be back on the BBS for a few days either.

MtnMan
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"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not". Thomas Jefferson

Offline MajIssue

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Re: Sending Salutes
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2008, 12:48:53 PM »
 :salute
X.O. False Prophets
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If you keep ignoring "Wife Ack" it will go away.