Author Topic: Crater's being more of a factor  (Read 211 times)

Offline Wingnut_0

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Crater's being more of a factor
« on: October 27, 2001, 02:42:00 PM »
I don't bomb alot, but when I do I usually bring up a Junkers. (Didn't say I lived thru the sortie  :))

I'd like craters to have some factor when their made.  Namely say dropping on runways, taxi-ways, etc.  If a plane try's rolling thru them, gear break etc.  Now I know that when I'm in a GV it "seems" that I can roll thru a crater and actually sink a bit in the ground, but when it comes to planes, I've never had a problem rolling over them.

Just something to give buff driver's another option when bombing.

Offline blob

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Crater's being more of a factor
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2001, 03:06:00 PM »
Ditto

Offline Wobble

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Crater's being more of a factor
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2001, 03:14:00 PM »
yea, and seeing as how we have the trees now, making it harder to take off without the runway, cratering it could actually be a good way to at least slow the planes taking off down a bit, perhaps cause a few to crash.

Offline 2Late4U

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Crater's being more of a factor
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2001, 04:19:00 PM »
Makes no sense.  Instead of having to destroy hangers and such, all we need is one JU-88 with a bunch of small bombs to pepper the runways.

The hangers are sort of a catch all for airfield damage.  No need to change things in a complex and unworkable way.

Offline Wingnut_0

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Crater's being more of a factor
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2001, 04:34:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 2Late4U:
Makes no sense.  Instead of having to destroy hangers and such, all we need is one JU-88 with a bunch of small bombs to pepper the runways.

The hangers are sort of a catch all for airfield damage.  No need to change things in a complex and unworkable way.


Sure it makes sense.  What's the difference in taking a Junkers and downing ack so ppl can vulch?  Not much.  Ppl STILL can't leave the runway...At least from my perspective I'd rather see area bombing vs. precision bombing anyway.

As a compromise, let's say that craters will effect anything travelling over a certain speed....say 20mph...that way you can taxi thru them, so it negates some effect of using it as a quick and easy way to take a field, but still allows for use of carpet bombing.

Even though I attack them more than fly, I'd rather see more bomber folks up in semi-large groups attacking fields this way.

Award a small fraction of a point for area bombing ON the bases (no points for trees killed..hehe).

Offline Wobble

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Crater's being more of a factor
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2001, 04:50:00 PM »
well as longs as you can hit an ack from 35k with a single bomb, there will never be anything resembeling an accurate bomber sim in this game, but thats a whole different barrel of midgits.

hitting runways iwould be a more viable option in this game if the bombing wasnt so accurate.. the bombs in AH are unaffected by wind, turbulence, or even drag.. they dont drift or disperse (a stick) no matter how high you drop them from.. as longs it its that way there is no sense in hitting a runway.. why do that when you ca just climb your goofy bellybutton to 30k and plink every single ack/fuel/or hanger with complete and total accuracy that cannot even be achieved by todays lazer guided weapons...

sure ya say "well the bombs are so accurate because so few people fly bombers".. well I think ist the opposite... this is a sim remember? what kinda flight some enthusiast wants to fly a plane and operate a weapons system that is completely and utterly historically inaccurate?? there is no REAL fun in flying at 35k and picking off every ack on a field.. there is nor rick, there is no challenge, other than getting there.. that actual attack itself is just point and click, no challenge, no variables to consider.. .. no fun.

Offline qts

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Crater's being more of a factor
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2001, 04:17:00 PM »
Wobble, this has been had out numerous times. Bombs are so accurate not because so few people want to fly bombers but because there are so few of them (this is a subtle but important distinction). One bomber has to do the job of a dozen. Yes, bombing was very inaccurate, but if you had enough bombers then one was sure to hit. Unfortunately, in AH, there aren't enough bombers so the accuracy of those that are present has to be increased to compensate.

Of course, it would be nice to have a nice formation of bombers all slaved to yours, and be able to switch amongst them.

Offline GearDwn

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Crater's being more of a factor
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2001, 05:35:00 PM »
Just make the whole airfield or city etc a scoreable zone ive wanted to carpet bomb for a long time but no points so have to use LGBs 1 at a time .... and I agree about craters would love to take a watermelon load 250s in the Lanc and pepper the runway...
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Offline Wobble

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Crater's being more of a factor
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2001, 06:41:00 PM »
Wobble, this has been had out numerous times. Bombs are so accurate not because so few people want to fly bombers but because there are so few of them (this is a subtle but important distinction). One bomber has to do the job of a dozen. Yes, bombing was very inaccurate, but if you had enough bombers then one was sure to hit. Unfortunately, in AH, there aren't enough bombers so the accuracy of those that are present has to be increased to compensate.
Of course, it would be nice to have a nice formation of bombers all slaved to yours, and be able to switch amongst them.


Well, i guess this is less of a sim and more of agame than I always thought...

Regardless of how few bombers are around in Ah there is still no real reason for the EXTREME accuracy.. im not saying the Ah bombers should be more accurate than historical one.. though i dont like the idea its one of those lovley 'gameplay concessions' that we all love so much.. but its redicilus to say that there is any need for bombers to be accurate enough to hit an ack from 35k with a 100 pound bomb with close to 100% accuracy..

personally I would think its funner to fly over the field and dump a load of bombs and have at lease SOME anticipation as to what im going to kill.. there is just absolutley no real skill invoved in bombing in AH.. you sit on autoclimb for a while and the point clikc and BOOM!.. there is no skill, no challenge.. no nothing..

Bombs are so accurate not because so few people want to fly bombers but because there are so few of them (this is a subtle but important distinction).

there are so few of them because few people want to fly them.. there is no distinction, it is cause and effect...

People dont like flying bombers in AH=very few bombers in AH..

like I said.. this is a flight sim accept for the bombers.. the bombers are a game.. most people pay and play to fly a realistic ww2 air combat sim, they do not pay to play a point and click bomber GAME..

as for no massed formation of bombers.. why should there be?.. the bombing modle in AH completely assures that there will never be any.. why bother? you can put each bomb on target, so even a massive field can be made ready for capture with a single b-17...

the bomber model insures that there will never be a need for large bomber formations, so there are none.. thats the problem, if it took more bomber to level a target, there would be more bombers...  simple supply and demand.. right now the demand for bombers is low, so there are very few..

why do you think would happen if bombs were made to be realistic? do you think bombers would disappear? I dont, i think there would be more.. because it would take more to accomplish a goal. and once a lot of people.. even people who dont like flying bombers participated in just 1 big raid mission, flying in formation and carpet bombing a base... they would start to REALLY like bombing...because its a hoot, and its a CHALLENGE..

I dont know about most people, but I play games for the challenge.. the challenge along with the simulation is what makes if fun.. the bombing in AH is no challenge and certinlay isnt much of a simulation.. so its just not very fun..

bombers in AH are just like bombs.. you use as many as the task needs.. if a hanger took 3k of bombs to destroy would you drop 5k on it?  no... so why would people fly 5 bombers to a target to carpet bomb it, when they can just lazer zap it with one?? simple, they DONT...  bombers are still a very useful tool for field capture, and certinley for killing start.. making them realistic would not scare off the 5 people that still fly them, it would create a bigger demand for them, a vaccum that would be filled by both the current players and the ever flowing stream of new meat that comes to the sim...

like I said, supply and demand..

and remember, the amount of players IS increasing.. more people = more planes.. so its not like there are so few players that there just arnt enough to spare a few to fly a bomber mission...

Offline SKurj

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Crater's being more of a factor
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2001, 10:00:00 PM »
Cratered runways were rarely an issue in ww2, so why should they be in AH?

The runways were often repaired and operational again within  hours or even minutes


SKurj

Offline Reschke

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Crater's being more of a factor
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2001, 03:10:00 PM »
You wet blanket Skurj. :D

I say why not let cratering be an issue. You bring up another good thought on the craters not being an issue in WW2. Why not have "repair" shacks that would house equipment that could be used for repairing the airstrip. In order to make it more "realistic" you need to destroy the repair facilities as well as the airstrip.

If HTC changes the way bombs and bombers are used then maybe this could be something that would work. All in the name of evolution and improvement I say.
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