Author Topic: Making Hard turns While Keepin E up? How too?  (Read 1799 times)

Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Making Hard turns While Keepin E up? How too?
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2008, 01:43:24 PM »
But when I'm flying against them we start with our merges, then we usually start turning and battling for postion. I can stay with them for a few revolutions until i either have to engage flaps or put my nose really far down to regain E. They seem to do these turns without going to wide to give me the advantage or without loosing any E and they almost seem to be at full speed! ( when I'm turning against them I'm not doing Flat turns.) How are they turning without Having these problems!

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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Making Hard turns While Keepin E up? How too?
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2008, 02:13:49 PM »
Yea, don't pull for lead right away. Use lag pursuit. If you pull for lead turns from the beginning they are effectively bleeding you dry. Stay at your optimal turn and use lag pursuit turns until you are ready to go to guns then switch to lead turn.

Exactly.  I never use lead pusuit until I'm ready to go for the kill shot.
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Offline Murdr

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Re: Making Hard turns While Keepin E up? How too?
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2008, 03:05:14 PM »
        I have had some problems with turning and keeping my E up. I adjust my throttle slowly but i think were my problem is in the speed of how I'm pulling my joystick.
This kind of stuck out to me.  Until I have aquired the positional advantage, it's very rare that I am not a max availible power.

Offline 20mmrain

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Re: Making Hard turns While Keepin E up? How too?
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2008, 05:11:21 PM »
     Again zazen that's another good piece of advice. So thankyou for it:) As far as the Ma Vs. DA or TA statement, I completely agree that in real combat in the Ma you hardly ever merge or start fighting like you do in the DA  or TA. But I believe that dueling is a very important training tool. For a couple of reasons.
1.) You know (within reason) the other person's merge and it makes the kill that much harder.
2.)  You also get to experience allot of people's fighting styles! Which gives you more chances to practice with that individual's style with out people interrupting.
     I know that was a little off the subject i just felt the need to comment on it. But i do appreciate the advice. Well Thank you for the added comments and i will definitely try a few. I also will keep checking in for more advice. It seems that people have allot of tips on this subject..... which is very helpful. Thank you again guys:)

20mmrain
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Offline BoilerDown

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Re: Making Hard turns While Keepin E up? How too?
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2008, 10:56:34 PM »
The thing I've heard from Rolex in the training squad and from reading these forums, is that a good pilot tries to gain an E advantage, until the point that they think they can get a killshot, they they "spend" some of their E to get and take the shot.  If you can make the other guy spend his E and not get yourself all shot up, you can turn around an E disadvantage to an E advantage.  Similarly, if you're a good shot, you can kill people while spending less of your E.

A lot easier to say than to do though.  I'm still waiting to get a 1 to 1 kill to death ratio in a tour.  But I'm learning and getting better.
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Offline Ghosth

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Re: Making Hard turns While Keepin E up? How too?
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2008, 07:21:04 AM »
Yes murdr  I caught the same thing, it almost jumped off the page at me.

20mm there is a time for throttle work, but when your blowing E in turns is not that time.

To reduce speed closer to corner speed so you can turn inside someone maybe, just maybe. But not most corners.
Using the vertical really is crucial, immelman's, obliques, yoyo's are all vital tools.

The other thing that several have mentioned, but didn't really explain well, was flying in lag pursuit to
horde your E.  So your chasing this bogey, and you see that 1.2k out he makes a very sharp left break turn.
Trying to get back around on you. Instead of pointing your nose at him, continue your path closer to where he turned.
Then make a smoother, less E loss turn than he did. Preferably holding an altitude advantage coming out of it.

What your attempting to do, is get behind him, but far enough back so he doesn't feel TOO threatened.
Then as he becomes more and more concerned his moves will become more violent, E wasteful. You cut across the corners because your in a position to anticipate where he's going. He's blowing chunks of E, and your flying smooth and saving yours.  End result you'll have E and he's going to be flopping around on the deck without any. Now you still need to know how to USE that E you gained. But your closer to the solution.

Doing this while maintaining SA, not letting him get nose around to kill you, this is what takes time and practice.

Come see me in the TA some afternoon, I think we need to get you into a val fight.  :)

Offline 20mmrain

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Re: Making Hard turns While Keepin E up? How too?
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2008, 07:16:40 PM »
    ghosth that is a really good answer and it explains the most out of everyone  i think I've heard here. Now I'm fairly good at using the E effectively once i have the advantage but getting that E advantage is were I have the first problem. Sometimes I get it right sometimes not. I was training with texture last night and besides those words i just said he all so suggested I need to spend some more time with good sticks just to hoan my skills. He said I have it all there I just make bad tactical choices sometimes. I would really like to meet up with you sometime to. So I can get another opinion. I will take all the training I can get Because I want to be the best i can be:)
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Offline 2bighorn

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Re: Making Hard turns While Keepin E up? How too?
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2008, 07:39:56 PM »
What I could see from the last night session and as you've mentioned, it comes down to timing ie choices. Basically, you manage E well, but the timing of your transition from E to angles (and reverse) is not always optimal and you often lose E and any positional advantage you had.

Another thing I've noticed, after you secure E advantage, you very often stuck on the top simply because your low speed handling is not perfect yet (rolling against the torque, stalls, snap rolls, etc).

There's no easy nor quick fix for those but lots of stick time (practice, practice, practice), preferably against/with better pilots.



Offline 20mmrain

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Re: Making Hard turns While Keepin E up? How too?
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2008, 08:06:17 PM »
       There that's better now I don't have to remember what texture exactly said there it was. LOL that makes much easier for people to allberate. Thank you for responding:)
Spitfire's Are only Called Noob Planes By the People Who Can't Beat Them!!!

Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Making Hard turns While Keepin E up? How too?
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2008, 10:07:32 AM »
Simple fix: fly the SpitXVI and you won't bleed e in hard turns.

So the old saying "Its the pilot not the plane" is finally being looked upon as not absolute.  Good.   ;)
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Offline 20mmrain

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Re: Making Hard turns While Keepin E up? How too?
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2008, 02:09:14 PM »
?
Spitfire's Are only Called Noob Planes By the People Who Can't Beat Them!!!

Offline Bronk

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Re: Making Hard turns While Keepin E up? How too?
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2008, 02:20:17 PM »
?
Spit whiners  20mm, pay them no attention.
See Rule #4

Offline 20mmrain

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Re: Making Hard turns While Keepin E up? How too?
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2008, 02:35:25 PM »
     AAAAAhhh yeah I get it!Like I always say people who whine about Spits can't beat them! It's all about the pilot not the Plane. I don't understand why people get mad about that stuff. It's not like the U.S. Said in WW2 in the pacific (in the beginning) Time out japan no fare we don't have planes that can fly with the zero! Can you guys wait till it's fair. LOL Well anyway I'm sure I just started a big fight so this will be intresting!
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Making Hard turns While Keepin E up? How too?
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2008, 02:58:47 PM »
That's funny.  My K/D ratio against Spits this tour is 21:1, and the majority of my kills are in the 109G-6 (late war arena), so that's a big fat contradiction against your theory.

Unless you're a beginner, man up and learn to fly something other than Spits.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2008, 03:00:54 PM by Anaxogoras »
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Offline 20mmrain

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Re: Making Hard turns While Keepin E up? How too?
« Reply #29 on: September 14, 2008, 03:09:20 PM »
      Well that's fine we can give it a go in the DA for fun once I'm not trying to say WHO better then who but look in the Aircraft and vehicles forums I just started a forum about this subject answer that one if you wanna comment on it.

Thanks for you r comment though:)

20mmrain
Spitfire's Are only Called Noob Planes By the People Who Can't Beat Them!!!