JSF "clubbed like baby seals"

[mg1942]

I dont't think russia would care.  Sukhoi is willing to offer their planes to anyone... friend or foe... just like the French Dassault business practice back in the 50s-70s.

The Su-35 was offered to several countries including South Korea, UAE, Malaysia and Brazil.  Only Brazil is seriously thinking about buying it.

[SD67]

Somehow I don't think it's the Russians' feeling our pollies would be worried about.
Could you imagine the wailing that would emanate from the USA if we passed over their 16 billion dollar F35 deal for Sukhois?

[Rich46yo]

"This is based on a computer game, computer modeling of the aircraft," he told Sky News.

You are kidding aren't you?

Its no secret there are elements in the Aussie Defense establishment who, for their own personal advancement, have been badmouthing the JSF since it adaptation. Like in this slice of silliness.

The JSF isn't designed to be the most aerodynamically superior aircraft in the world. Its designed to be "nimble enough", and incrementally more so then the F-16. Remember this thing has the frontal RCS of a small bird. The entire idea of future air warfare is to detect and kill he enemy before he even knows your there.

Boy theres more hot air coming our of the Aussie anti-F-35 industry then in a pot pie eating contest. Your own air generals have said the F-35 is the best selection for the RAN. The F-22 doesn't have a dual attack role.

Notice how this article has zero facts to back it up. "Baby seals"? Some of you Aussies have a few roos loose in the paddock.

BTW we couldnt care less what aircraft you chose. Go ahead and buy Russian and see if the average Americans gives a rats arse.

[SD67]

Oh please.
It does not matter if you have the radar cross section of a freakin' GNAT. If it's a gnat doing mach2 it's going to get shot at.
FYI the RAN is not the RAAF. If the RAN want the F35 then let them apply for it themselves. The F35 is quite simply NOT the right aircraft for the RAAF. It's been pushed for purely political reasons.

BTW we couldnt care less what aircraft you chose. Go ahead and buy Russian and see if the average Americans gives a rats arse.

The average American probably wouldn't and that's actually a good thing. . It's the political fallout that would scare them away from buying the Russian birds.

[Rich46yo]

I dont't think russia would care.  Sukhoi is willing to offer their planes to anyone... friend or foe... just like the French Dassault business practice back in the 50s-70s.

The Su-35 was offered to several countries including South Korea, UAE, Malaysia and Brazil.  Only Brazil is seriously thinking about buying it.

Have you lost your mind? We have 9 major partners in the program who want it so bad they have contributed billions to its developmental program. There are going to be 3,000 to 4,000 of the Lightnings built. There are an additional 4 or 5 air forces interested in it and will probably buy it. Like India, Singapore, Israel, and Brazil.

[Rich46yo]

Oh please.
It does not matter if you have the radar cross section of a freakin' GNAT. If it's a gnat doing mach2 it's going to get shot at.
FYI the RAN is not the RAAF. If the RAN want the F35 then let them apply for it themselves. The F35 is quite simply NOT the right aircraft for the RAAF. It's been pushed for purely political reasons.The average American probably wouldn't and that's actually a good thing. . It's the political fallout that would scare them away from buying the Russian birds.

Both services want them. And your statement is as short on specifics as that article, exactly what "political reasons" do all these air Generals have?

[mg1942]

Btw the F-35 is downgraded from VERY low observable to low observable.

A crucial aspect of the fighter's "stealth capability" - radio frequency signatures - has been downgraded from "very low observable" to "low observable", according to the US Defence Department website.

Peter Goon, a former RAAF flight test engineer, said that would mean the difference between it appearing as a "marble and a beach ball" on enemy radar. The problem with the fighter, Dr Jensen says, is that it can be relatively easily detected from the rear.

If that's true, F-35 will be nothing but a dump truck

"[The Joint Strike] is essentially a second tier bomb truck. It lacks the necessary aerodynamics to defeat the [Sukhoi] Flankers, never mind future aircraft that may proliferate," he told the parliamentary inquiry into Australia's regional air superiority.

The Sukhoi family of Russian aircraft are, or will be, operated by most Asian air forces, including China, Indonesia, Malaysia and India.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/not-so-stealthy-the-15b-fighters/2006/03/13/1142098404532.html

[SD67]

It's not the "Generals" that have the political reasons. The "Generals" actually want the F22. They really do NOT want the F35 for many reasons, but they really have not been given a choice.

[-tronski-]

The F-35 is indeed a bad idea. It's supposed to replace our F-111's and F/A-18 HUG (and soon to be F/A-18E super hornet) but the F-35 costs too much and trucks very little not very far.
It'll waste our Wedgetail AEW&C (whenever Boeing gets around to delivering them) and suck up the capacity of the new KC-30B's.
We should've taken the money we're wasting on 24 F/A-18E and tried to get the same deal the Koreans got on new F-15's. Even with an acquisition of six EA-18G where still leaving ourselves short legged.
Theres no likelyhood we'd even be able to acquire F-22's, and the current F-22 still can't give the bomb truck we're losing by retiring the F-111 early but it still light years ahead of the F-35 in capability, range and survivability.
The RAAF should be a mix of a upgraded F-15E variant (F-15K, SG etc), and the F-111's until a later block of the F-35, or the question of the F-22 can be better answered.
 
 Tronsky

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Wow, what an in depth well sourced article. 

[SD67]

Which one Virg? There are many many more.
This is a long running debate between the Air Force and the Government acquisition departments.
The Air Force are having the F35 pushed upon them as a political favour for the US. They have repeatedly told the Government ministers that the aircraft is unsuitable and that there better options.
The F35 is a giant dud and the American politicians who backed it are desperate to find customers at almost any cost. The JSF experiment is a failure.

[lyric1]

You are kidding aren't you?

Its no secret there are elements in the Aussie Defense establishment who, for their own personal advancement, have been badmouthing the JSF since it adaptation. Like in this slice of silliness.

The JSF isn't designed to be the most aerodynamically superior aircraft in the world. Its designed to be "nimble enough", and incrementally more so then the F-16. Remember this thing has the frontal RCS of a small bird. The entire idea of future air warfare is to detect and kill he enemy before he even knows your there.

Boy theres more hot air coming our of the Aussie anti-F-35 industry then in a pot pie eating contest. Your own air generals have said the F-35 is the best selection for the RAN. The F-22 doesn't have a dual attack role.

Notice how this article has zero facts to back it up. "Baby seals"? Some of you Aussies have a few roos loose in the paddock.

BTW we couldnt care less what aircraft you chose. Go ahead and buy Russian and see if the average Americans gives a rats arse.

It is true that a lot of the military are anti-F- 35 they remember the purchase of the old Mirages with the single engine going out all the time hence why they went for the FA/18's having two engines.  Plus you can't blame a General looking at a brand new toy that is far more superior & thinking do I want my guys flying against an equal or do I want my guys to rule the sky? F22 Raptor is the answer in the fighter roll.

[PanosGR]

Don’t know which exact sukhoi version simulated against the F-35, but the newest version is this one the Su-35BM. BM (Bolshaya Modernizatsiya) means the ultimete modernization. some features are Glass cockpit, new  radar ΝΙΙΡ IRbis-E with AESA tech,  new engines 117S with 3-D exhaust nozzles, rear hemisphere radar, IRST OLS, ECM/ESM package L175M Khibiny, plus GPS style nav aid GLONASS.

Btw the are no stealth weapons yet. F-35 uses the usual weapons AMRAAM, JDAM but carries them inside in special compartments. Thus the stealth regarding the weapon load. 







But still the Russians are prepere their new Fifth-Gen fighter. The programme is called PAK-FA. Below are some ideas about how this thing is like. Look familiar to you? 

im not saying ofcourse that this how PAK-Fa is gonna like Raptor, i fell is gonna be much different and these icons are 4 year old maybe older.

[Saxman]

Strength in numbers always win battles... something I believe that UCAVs will have over manned combat aircraft.

 

Might want to review your military history there.

RAF was heavily outnumbered during the BOB.

The Americans were heavily outnumbered in the vast majority of aerial battles in the Pacific from the beginning of the war up through at least the Battle of the Phillippine Sea.

During Gulf War I the Iraqis had the third-largest army in the world.

The right tactics, training, experience and equipment can overcome numbers in virtually ANY combat engagement.

[Hornet33]

Boy theres more hot air coming our of the Aussie anti-F-35 industry then in a pot pie eating contest. Your own air generals have said the F-35 is the best selection for the RAN. The F-22 doesn't have a dual attack role.

Actually the F-22 is multi mission capable and routinely carries 2 1000lb JDAM's or 8 GBU-39/B Small Diameter Bombs



The US Air Force began integration testing of the F-22A Raptor and the GBU-39/B Small-Diameter Bomb (SDB). Testing is conducted since February 2007 by the 411th Flight Test Squadron at Edwards. The weapon is a low-cost, stand-off, next generation precision strike weapon, capable of flying autonomously. Integrating the F-22's stealth and speed and the weapon at a stand-off distance of up to 60 nautical miles (111 km). The 250-pound (114 kg) class small-diameter bomb takes target information from the aircraft and flies using an onboard computer after release from the aircraft. Four SDBs and its BRU-61 carriage can be loaded in each weapon bay of the Raptor, enabling the F-22 to carry a total of eight SDB weapons in addition to two AMRAAMs.