War on Drugs gone awry in another case

[crockett]

Just another example of gargantuan waste in lives and money.. largest prison population in the US.. billions and billions spent.. millions of people that would otherwise contributing more to society by paying into it instead of being incarcerated by it or hunted by it...

that sack a weed prolly cost us a million.

The average death penalty case cost the state $2.3 million.  I think I read somewhere in regards to private owned prison meaning owned by a corporation each prisoner is worth about $60k to $80k a year. Meaning that's how much these companies get paid by the state for every prisoner.

This is the reason it's so silly for people to use the socialism excuse when you bring up drug treatment rehabilitation vs out right imprisonment.

According to this page this is the average sentence for drug trafficking and possession.. ( I have no clue if this is accurate but it's likely close)

http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/2354/Drugs-Justice-System-CONVICTION-SENTENCING-TRENDS.html

Possession:   average felony conviction 35 years    actual average time served  14 years   equals $840k if you assume the state pays $60k/yr
Trafficking:   average felony conviction 55 years    actual average time served  24  years  equals $1.4 million if you assume the state pays $60k/yr

The average cost of drug treatment is from $3.5k to 7.5k by a study in 2002.

"The report, "Alcohol and Drug Services Study Cost Study," finds that residential treatment for alcohol or drug abuse cost $3,840 per admission and outpatient methadone treatment cost $7,415 per admission in 2002."

source
http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pro/a/blsam040527.htm

Giving non viloent addicts treatment is a far better choice and much cheaper for the tax payer than sending them to jail. Even if you had to send the same addict through treatment 10 or 15 times it would still be cheaper for the tax payer than sending him to prision.

With that said of course treatment is useless if the user doesn't want to quit. So it's obviously not a fix all but I'd bet you could at the very least cut the prision drug offender population in half by giving them treatment rather than just locking them away.

Whats worse is the prisoners often come out of the system worse than they went in and on avearge they end up right back in jail again for the same crime or often times a worse crime.

[bongaroo]

Actually, I don't know what most lefties want, but I follow the "if it doesn't hurt me or mine, it doesn't bother me" mantra.

[bongaroo]

It's 4oz, or 112gm (standard unit of dealing).

1gm of good stuff can easily get 4 people (Jamaican's excepted) stoned out of their minds - 8 if it's Canadian Hydro.

I will agree however that 6 pills of ex and a few Valiums is nothing.

4oz bought at a decent price and selling 3 1/2 would get you a free 1/2 oz.  A quap is nothing dude.

[BnZ]

Actually, I don't know what most lefties want, but I follow the "if it doesn't hurt me or mine, it doesn't bother me" mantra.

By that mantra, welcome to the libertarian side.

Well, as long as you don't have some Leftist "BnZ shouldn't be able to own a .50 caliber machine gun because he might go crazy and shoot through my car's engine block just for spite" hangup. Which is of course  identical in logic to the "Bongaroo can't have a joint because he might get the "reefer madness" and go on a killing spree with a giant novelty spork..." hangup of the Right, then 

[Slamfire]

4oz bought at a decent price and selling 3 1/2 would get you a free 1/2 oz.  A quap is nothing dude.

Out of genuine curiosity, what does a gram of weed go for nowadays ?

Last time I paid attention, they were going for $10 in 1984.

[crockett]

The drug war is silly. All that happens is you put a lot of people in jail and put a lot of money into a huge black-market. Ever since men have walked the earth, someone has gone out to get high, you cant and won't stop it. You can deal with it in a dysfunctional, delusional maner and create more problems.

One would think after "Prohibition" well,,,, in any case, 60 years or more into a "drug war" the same policys fail year after year, wow, talk about beating a dead horse.  

zuii

I used to think it was more about the govt not wanting to admit they couldn't win. However then I started following the money trail. The black market drugs create is nothing compared to the money pumped into the drug war by the US govt.

The drug war is responsible for creating 100's of thousands of jobs in everything from Military, to the Coast Guard down to the street Cop walking the beat. Then you have the entire prison system that is commercialized providing who knows how many jobs. Hell even the private contractors like Black Water are now getting in on the deal. They are now working in South America on anti drug operations with US special forces and the CIA.

Then if you get into the military/police equipment area think of all the helicopters guns, police cars and special equipment. The list could be endless on how much money the US drug war is worth, it's likely worth hundreds of billions to the US economy every year. The short and skinny is the govt doesn't have any plans on winning it, it's just worth too much money for the economy.

As Dwight Eisenhower warned us about the industrial military complex.. Well it's true, because the Drug war is prime example of it. The War on drugs is such a big part of the US economy that we can't end the war.

edit.. hell I didn't even mention the whole Judaical side of things. Think of all the lawyers, judges, court staff ect..ect that are needed because of all the excessive drug cases that fill our courts.

In short it seems Superman needs Lex Luther just as much as Batman needs the Joker..

[Hangtime]

un freaking believable.

The ludicrous ravings of the democrat mind.

[crockett]

un freaking believable.

The ludicrous ravings of the democrat mind.

Na whats amazing is that people like you can't see the forrest for the trees.

[Vudak]

un freaking believable.

The ludicrous ravings of the democrat mind.

Do you have an actual argument that makes sense?  And since when am I a democrat?

How about we do a little excercise.  Let's pretend there is no 2nd Amendment and people are trying to get rid of all the guns in the United States.  What are some reasons it shouldn't be done and won't work?  Put them in a list.

Something tells me there'll be a number of reasons on that list that apply just the same for drugs...

[Vudak]

Charon, you should be a weed-defense lawyer  

But seriously, no matter how it's rationalized, it's a lot of weed - and a 1/4 pound is no baggie - it's a BRICK.  

Really, it isn't that much.  Wouldn't raise my eyebrows in the slightest.

It's mid level dealer tonnage... ie: a dealer that sells to OTHER dealers and never sees end users.

At least in my area, that's not true...  But I think from the rest of your post, I see why you're thinking that...

Most street dealers buy (more accurately get "fronted") an ounce at a time - and most end users buy a GRAM at a time (1/28th of an oz).  A gram will get you plenty baked for an evening.  Most drug users do not buy a month's supply at a time.  Hell most don't look past the next 20 mins.

See, this strikes me as more of a city/poorer economic area blackmarket than what exists in more suburban/wealthy areas.  The eighth is the more commonly purchased amount around here.  If someone's buying a gram, they're getting ripped off and they know it.  You want to team up with friends to buy in bulk to save money.

Now in the cities, of course, you can still find guys selling Nicks and Dimes.

ie: she had enough stuff on her to make 400+ people go to Dairy Queen asking for triple cheeseburgers with sprinkle-butterfinger-blizzards.

Another way of putting it is 400+ people can get stoned on ONE day, ONCE.  Which puts it in a much less impressive perspective.

So I have my doubts...  if she was so smalltime and innocent, how did she even show up on anyone's radar (not once, but twice)?  And why was she used on such a high profile/dangerous sting ?

I was distracted while watching, but wasn't she arrested the first time after her car was pulled over?  And then the second time on an anonymous tip?  Well, college kids drive like jerks, and this girl was attractive.  It's not too difficult to imagine that she po'd another girl over a boy.  Women can be very vindictive.

As for why she was used on such a high profile/dangerous sting...  Well, the Chief made it pretty clear that he's not the brightest bulb.

[Rich46yo]

Let's also not forget who killed her.  It wasn't the police, it was these Fine Young Men:

(Image removed from quote.)

Nope it was the Police that were also responsable. Where I come from 1/4 lb of weed is nothing. "MidLevel" = about 10 to 50 lbs. You'd get laughed at coming in with a pinch for 4 lids of weed.

And even if you werent laughed at any of our guys who never put the arm on some kid like that and put them out for a controlled buy with a couple of gangstas. Let alone throw a gun in with it. Nope! This is an extreme case of Police stupidity and I'll bet at the root of it all is some worthless narc unit that cant make a real case to save its life.

[Elfie]

It's mid level dealer tonnage... ie: a dealer that sells to OTHER dealers and never sees end users.

      

IF, IF.....she was dealing. It darn sure wasn't to other dealers. Not with only 4 ounces of weed.

Heck, in my day, I knew more than one person that would buy a pound at a time for their own personal use. They just popped the stuff in the freezer and took out small quantities at a time. I knew a lot more people that would buy 1/4 lbs at a time and then split it with friends or pop the stuff in the freezer and take out small quantities at a time.....

[Elfie]

Most street dealers buy (more accurately get "fronted") an ounce at a time - and most end users buy a GRAM at a time (1/28th of an oz).  A gram will get you plenty baked for an evening.  Most drug users do not buy a month's supply at a time.  Hell most don't look past the next 20 mins

 

I never, ever, saw a dealer that was willing to break down weed into gram baggies. In fact, the vast majority of dealers don't want to deal with anything LESS than a quarter ounce.

Your statement might apply to cocaine or other drugs but it certainly doesn't apply to weed.

[Thruster]

As with so many dialogs on this board (as with most I presume) the most ardent opinions are voiced by those with little or no knowledge of which they speak.

Assuming the story contains enough facts to pass the network's due diligence filter, it's pretty apparent the officials involved are guilty of negligent homicide IMO. Some may feel that characterization is a bit draconian but that's another topic. But my first question when these things happen is "What's being done about it?"

I gotta believe the real motivation behind this travesty was money. I might even accept that there were a few individuals who had misgivings about the whole affair but for whatever reason didn't or couldn't alter what went down. Probably because of money.

It all boils down to accountability. But then again most official misconduct does. For some reason we rarely maintain our collective outrage long enough to see the culprits behind a massive debacle pay the price. Nor do we take the time to do the math and ascertain where the real problems lie. This goes for the current credit meltdown as well as most of the crisis' we tangle with regularly. If we demand satisfaction, we're commonly mollified with a sacrificial lamb or two.

As much as we beat up on the Tallahassee CP. It's doubtful he was even aware of the sting until it went to heck. It's also doubtful he was completely forthcoming in his defense of the operation. I imagine he's p.o.'d as all get out but probably for all of the wrong reasons.

I just want to see what they do about it. It will happen again. We had one earlier this year involving some feds in a south suburb where the c.i. was killed. I haven't heard any details about what went wrong there. Wonder why.

[Slamfire]

I never, ever, saw a dealer that was willing to break down weed into gram baggies. In fact, the vast majority of dealers don't want to deal with anything LESS than a quarter ounce.

Your statement might apply to cocaine or other drugs but it certainly doesn't apply to weed.

Like i said: last time I paid attention to that scene was in the early 80s... I find those amounts staggering...  back then 1gm was "personal" - anything more and you were looking at serious dealing charges... 

It's like saying "Gee, I think I'll tie-one-on tonight", and going to the store & buying a keg of beer.

Like assume a cop pulls over a 16year old kid and finds a full keg of beer in the backseat - you really think the kid will be able to convince the cop that he wasn't going to sell beer at a keg party ?  "It's personal use only officer - honest".

Back in the day most people who smoked only dabbled in it on weekends - you guys make it sound like today's standard is to get high every waking hour of every single day 24/7.  If that's not an addictive drug, I don't know what is.

I'm not doubting what some of you are saying (esp Rich) in terms of today's perspective, just that I find it extremely disturbing...  I guess we really did lose the war on drugs, and that explains why there's so much crime today.

Well, you guys have made me bitter and I'm off to the Dallas Market Hall gun show today (woo!)