Author Topic: Quick question for the Trainers  (Read 590 times)

Offline iTunes

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Quick question for the Trainers
« on: September 22, 2008, 09:57:01 AM »
Hey guys (S)
Is it possible to get some advanced training on models like the 106G6 and say the d-25? Or is it more sort of basic Generic training you guys do?
I'll ask that of the Training Community as a whole as I'm sure there's lot of great sticks that hang out in the TA.
Just looking to be pushed in one of these Aircraft.
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Offline morfiend

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Re: Quick question for the Trainers
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2008, 04:41:39 PM »
Look up Texture,He'll give ya a workout in a 109...

Offline Spikes

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Re: Quick question for the Trainers
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2008, 07:26:54 PM »
Hajo is good in Jugs, but not sure if he flies the D25 or not...
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Offline mtnman

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Re: Quick question for the Trainers
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2008, 08:17:11 PM »
I don't think I've ever taken a hop in a 109G6, so I'm no expert there...  However, I often get requests for help in the various F4U's, and I'll tell you the same thing I tell those guys.  There are no super-secret-F4U moves.  The F4U flies the same manuevers as the Spit, 109, Zero, or whatever.  The basic ACM's are the same, regardless of the plane type.  All of our fighters will roll, or loop, or immelmann, or whatever.

The size and speed of the maneuver may vary quite a bit between plane types, and depending on what you're fighting against though. The "edge" of the flight envelope varies quite a bit too.  When I give lessons in the TA, I'll fly whatever my "student" wants to work in.  It doesn't really matter to me, because the basic concepts remain the same.  

Planes don't turn so hot when they're too fast, or too slow.  Each plane may have a different "sweet spot" when it comes to manuevering speed, but it's generally in the mid-range of it's speed envelope.  An airplane turning at it's "best" speed can often out-turn planes it "shouldn't" if those are flown outside of their best speed.

To get really good in a particular plane requires some serious time and effort in that particular plane, and some analysis of your successes and failures to determine what works "best" in any given situation.  And some thought is needed to differentiate between "aircraft" strengths and weaknesses, and "pilot induced" strengths and weaknesses, which may be attributed incorrectly to "aircraft" strengths and weaknesses.

Tactics may be generally defined, but specific tactics against a specific plane under a specific set of circumstances can be tough to define, replicate, and teach.

When folks come to me for "advanced" training, I often find (always, so far???) that what they really lack is refinement of the basics.  Sure, they can do a scissors and a barrel roll- but can they get the most out of those (and other) manuevers under a wide range of circumstances, quickly and smoothly transitioning into different but "correct" manuevers designed to create an angles advantage with enough E to make a finishing shot against a wide range of aircraft, with a wide range of E-states, in a constantly changing tactical environment?  I generally find my "students" are making some very basic mistakes, and don't understand some pretty basic concepts.  Or at least don't understand why those concepts are important, and how to gain advantage through that understanding.  Even if they've been playing for several years.

Getting "good" in a plane means (to me, at least) knowing that particular plane inside and out, frontwards and backwards, its strengths and weaknesses compared to other aircraft, and what it's capable of doing at any particular time, and how to get it to do what you want/need it to do without really thinking about it.  It also means knowing which tactics to employ at any given time against any given opponent.  Being an expert "xxx" pilot isn't any good if you don't know or aren't able to employ the correct tactics, or simply can't keep track of your opponent.

I've also found that mastering a few basic "concepts" will put you at a huge advantage against the vast majority of pilots in the MA's, regardless of the plane you're in.  

MtnMan
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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Quick question for the Trainers
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2008, 10:54:38 PM »
I don't think I've ever taken a hop in a 109G6, so I'm no expert there...  However, I often get requests for help in the various F4U's, and I'll tell you the same thing I tell those guys.  There are no super-secret-F4U moves.  The F4U flies the same manuevers as the Spit, 109, Zero, or whatever.  The basic ACM's are the same, regardless of the plane type.  All of our fighters will roll, or loop, or immelmann, or whatever.

The size and speed of the maneuver may vary quite a bit between plane types, and depending on what you're fighting against though. The "edge" of the flight envelope varies quite a bit too.  When I give lessons in the TA, I'll fly whatever my "student" wants to work in.  It doesn't really matter to me, because the basic concepts remain the same.  

Planes don't turn so hot when they're too fast, or too slow.  Each plane may have a different "sweet spot" when it comes to manuevering speed, but it's generally in the mid-range of it's speed envelope.  An airplane turning at it's "best" speed can often out-turn planes it "shouldn't" if those are flown outside of their best speed.

To get really good in a particular plane requires some serious time and effort in that particular plane, and some analysis of your successes and failures to determine what works "best" in any given situation.  And some thought is needed to differentiate between "aircraft" strengths and weaknesses, and "pilot induced" strengths and weaknesses, which may be attributed incorrectly to "aircraft" strengths and weaknesses.

Tactics may be generally defined, but specific tactics against a specific plane under a specific set of circumstances can be tough to define, replicate, and teach.

When folks come to me for "advanced" training, I often find (always, so far???) that what they really lack is refinement of the basics.  Sure, they can do a scissors and a barrel roll- but can they get the most out of those (and other) manuevers under a wide range of circumstances, quickly and smoothly transitioning into different but "correct" manuevers designed to create an angles advantage with enough E to make a finishing shot against a wide range of aircraft, with a wide range of E-states, in a constantly changing tactical environment?  I generally find my "students" are making some very basic mistakes, and don't understand some pretty basic concepts.  Or at least don't understand why those concepts are important, and how to gain advantage through that understanding.  Even if they've been playing for several years.

Getting "good" in a plane means (to me, at least) knowing that particular plane inside and out, frontwards and backwards, its strengths and weaknesses compared to other aircraft, and what it's capable of doing at any particular time, and how to get it to do what you want/need it to do without really thinking about it.  It also means knowing which tactics to employ at any given time against any given opponent.  Being an expert "xxx" pilot isn't any good if you don't know or aren't able to employ the correct tactics, or simply can't keep track of your opponent.

I've also found that mastering a few basic "concepts" will put you at a huge advantage against the vast majority of pilots in the MA's, regardless of the plane you're in.  

MtnMan


TRU DAT.......................... THE GOSPEL....................... ......NUFF SAID......................... .. :aok
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Quick question for the Trainers
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2008, 11:00:13 PM »
Hey guys (S)
Is it possible to get some advanced training on models like the 106G6 and say the d-25?

most certainly........

Or is it more sort of basic Generic training you guys do?

The ACES HIGH TRAINING CORPS,  DO IT ALL..in case you did not know!  ;)
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline iTunes

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Re: Quick question for the Trainers
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2008, 03:35:05 PM »
lol tc :)
Thanks and I'll hop over to see one of you boys, it's more a question of me finding out "Why" instead of the "How"
Cheers guys :aok
The Class Acts.
JG54 Grunherz
iTunes- UK's finest killer of ack huggers and runners, mixing business with girls and thrills.
JG54/ Manchester United- Nobody likes us-we don't care... Goes by the name of Wayne rooney http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW-47c_8J4c