Author Topic: Dow Jones plummets  (Read 9875 times)

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Re: Dow Jones plummets
« Reply #120 on: October 01, 2008, 03:26:09 PM »
way outta line, Dos. -5 respect points.

The POS doesn't have that many to lose. He's scum, and will get zero respect from me, ever.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline Mr No Name

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Re: Dow Jones plummets
« Reply #121 on: October 01, 2008, 03:30:51 PM »
Your friend is an idiot and a liar.

Simply no two ways about it.

I suppose when they cannot take the TRUTH, that's the best they can do.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 03:33:55 PM by Mr No Name »
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Offline Nwbie

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Re: Dow Jones plummets
« Reply #122 on: October 01, 2008, 03:53:00 PM »
If he meant that they would not be able to be a "Federal Home Loan Bank (FHLB)" - literally shut-off from that insured program, i can see how that may "shutdown" a bank in "distressed" areas. No business available would cause it to look for a merger, or close its doors.
Could be that was what was meant. The bank couldn't be shutdown for that reason by any agency.


Skuzzy-- "Facts are slowly becoming irrelevant in favor of the nutjob."

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Re: Dow Jones plummets
« Reply #123 on: October 01, 2008, 03:57:09 PM »
If he meant that they would not be able to be a "Federal Home Loan Bank (FHLB)" - literally shut-off from that insured program, i can see how that may "shutdown" a bank in "distressed" areas. No business available would cause it to look for a merger, or close its doors.
Could be that was what was meant. The bank couldn't be shutdown for that reason by any agency.




They could and would shut down a bank for that reason. A bank can be shut off from any and all programs, and be brought under investigation for any number of reasons, real or bogus. The feds do not necessarily do things above board, or "by the book". Anyone who thinks the feds won't strong arm just about anyone or any business if they have the desire is sadly mistaken.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline Xargos

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Re: Dow Jones plummets
« Reply #124 on: October 01, 2008, 04:07:17 PM »
The two people I know who work for Wachovia, one being the executive type, pretty much say what Captain Virgil Hilts said.
Jeffery R."Xargos" Ward

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Offline Nwbie

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Re: Dow Jones plummets
« Reply #125 on: October 01, 2008, 04:23:12 PM »
The two people I know who work for Wachovia, one being the executive type, pretty much say what Captain Virgil Hilts said.

and do they say it is a stock market problem - or a financial markets problem?
They have to love working there these days.
Skuzzy-- "Facts are slowly becoming irrelevant in favor of the nutjob."

Offline Charon

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Re: Dow Jones plummets
« Reply #126 on: October 01, 2008, 05:11:08 PM »
I don't know squat about economics at this level. But, there are some simple truisms that send up a red flag here.

1st, the rush to solution. A rush so fast we won't know what's happened until years later.

2nd, The players involved all have a vested interest in the bailout, either for their political reputations or personal fortunes. The argument is made that we all rise or sink with the tide, but where stocks are concerned I imagine a balanced portfolio in a 401k will fall less far than those with a huge compensation package or heavy stock positions related to financial stocks and institutions.

3rd, the liquidity crisis and the financial crisis are related, but apparently not exclusively so. You could find a solution to liquidity while the markets work themselves out.

4th, this changes the economy and US capitalism in a fundamental way that is very disturbing. It also continues a pattern of central govt. control that is disturbing itself, part of the New World Order, share the world socialism ideal that I don't believe is a good thing. Let's build a new world globalized house of cards that's great, up until China goes to war over water rights or we need to fight a full WWIII in the middle east over nuclear terrorism and we no longer have a manufacturing base, etc.

5th, there is no consensus that this is the right solution. In fact, you can find as many opposing viewpoints as you can support. Such as:

Quote
The obvious alternative to a bailout is letting troubled financial institutions declare bankruptcy. Bankruptcy means that shareholders typically get wiped out and the creditors own the company.

Bankruptcy does not mean the company disappears; it is just owned by someone new (as has occurred with several airlines). Bankruptcy punishes those who took excessive risks while preserving those aspects of a businesses that remain profitable.

In contrast, a bailout transfers enormous wealth from taxpayers to those who knowingly engaged in risky subprime lending. Thus, the bailout encourages companies to take large, imprudent risks and count on getting bailed out by government. This "moral hazard" generates enormous distortions in an economy's allocation of its financial resources.

Thoughtful advocates of the bailout might concede this perspective, but they argue that a bailout is necessary to prevent economic collapse. According to this view, lenders are not making loans, even for worthy projects, because they cannot get capital. This view has a grain of truth; if the bailout does not occur, more bankruptcies are possible and credit conditions may worsen for a time.

Talk of Armageddon, however, is ridiculous scare-mongering. If financial institutions cannot make productive loans, a profit opportunity exists for someone else. This might not happen instantly, but it will happen...

Jeffrey A. Miron is senior lecturer in economics at Harvard University. A Libertarian, he was one of 166 academic economists who signed a letter to congressional leaders last week opposing the government bailout plan.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/29/miron.bailout/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

Again, I don't know squat. But I do know that if you follow the basics and common sense your are right more often than not. I knew the .com bubble was a house of cards very early on and anticipated the year it would collapse. I even saved, at the time, the copies of Wired magazine talking about the so-called "New Economy," etc. where fundamentals didn't matter anymore -- for a future laugh. The real Estate bubble was the same. I predicted a year ahead the last window of opportunity to sell my house easily and at a peak profit, if we wanted to go that route. I avoided doing stupid things in the RE market, that others didn't give a second thought about at the time. I figureded they would probably pay for their mistakes in time, not me.

We never really had the full correction, IMO, from the .com era and then the money moved into real estate and now futures, and we seem to be fiddling in small and large ways to keep the market from correcting. It's just a gut feeling, and it could very easily be wrong, but this doesn't really add up to the hype. I get the feeling those that have been selling short and riding the wave have far more to lose and far more influence over the process than the common US taxpayer who they want to pick up the bill. And then, eventually, the ignored fundamentals create a deeper crisis that fiddling can't correct and we're still screwed and a trillion dollars poorer than we needed to be.

Too bad we cant trust Washington or the media for better guidance on this.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 05:37:03 PM by Charon »

Offline Hangtime

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Re: Dow Jones plummets
« Reply #127 on: October 01, 2008, 05:48:18 PM »
Well said. Deserves a reply as thought out as the post... but I find myself just plain exhausted by the pummeling by the media and the wailing by the left, spin on the right.

All I can go with is the kitchen table economics I learned from grandpa first, and then by experience later..

"Son, you can't borrow your way out of debt."

again.. good post. enjoyed that one.  :aok
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Xargos

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Re: Dow Jones plummets
« Reply #128 on: October 01, 2008, 11:04:24 PM »
and do they say it is a stock market problem - or a financial markets problem?
They have to love working there these days.


John, the executive one, isn't too sure he'll have a job much longer.  I didn't get to ask about the details on market issues, I just remember him stating about a year ago how the Feds would intimidate the banks into loaning money to certain groups of people.  He was concerned even back then that that, along with some other lending practices, would come back and bite them in the azz.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 11:06:51 PM by Xargos »
Jeffery R."Xargos" Ward

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Offline Mr No Name

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Re: Dow Jones plummets
« Reply #129 on: October 01, 2008, 11:36:19 PM »
Thomas Jefferson to John Taylor, 1816    

For all of their imperfections (all humans have them though) We were mighty damned lucky to have so many brilliant, principled men founding this country!  :salute
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