If you voted Yes for the bail out, you voted for privacy invasion

[Sixpence]

The funny thing is, from what I understand, if you were to lower any principal's, it would increase the net loss, wouldn't it?

Well, if it is our money, and it pays taxpayers mortgages, or helps them stay in their homes, are not we getting our money back

You know, this is what I don't understand, instead of buying bad mortgages, why not just rewrite them into good loans. I mean, why not take that 30 year mortgage with an adjustable rate and make it a longer loan at a fixed rate? Shoot, run them 40, 50, even 60 year loans. Then at a fixed rate and longer term, the payment is affordable and more likely to be paid.

I know you are saying a 60 year loan might not get paid off, but by keeping them in the loan, making payments, they are not defaulting. The value of that home will go back up, real estate never loses value in the long run.

Now, unfortunately, my loan is good and I won't see any of that money, so I guess I won't get 'bailed out'. But the bad loans won't need any money if they just rewrite them so the payment is affordable.

[Nwbie]

LOL at MG1942 and others that supported this. Check out the pork!

They now calling it the "Christmas tree bill" 


Kids' wooden arrows

Puerto Rican rum producers

Auto race tracks

Corporations operating in American Samoa. (The likely explanation for the latter: StarKist has a large tuna-canning operation in American Samoa. And StarKist's parent company happens to be located in the district of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.)

One-year extension for wind and refined coal energy tax credits. A production credit for electricity produced from renewable marine energy sources (meaning through wave power and river power, or by exploiting the differences in ocean temperature). Energy credits for "small wind properties," geothermal heat pump systems, and energy-efficient residential properties.

New renewable-energy bonds. Up to $800 billion in energy bonds may be offered to the public, with a third from "public power providers," a third from governments, and the remainder from "cooperative electric companies."

Tax credits for "cellulosic biofuels" and for "carbon dioxide sequestration." An extension of an alternative fuel credit. Tax credits for "new qualified plug-in electric-drive motor vehicles." Bicycle commuters get a nod, as do regulations aimed at "residential top-loading clothes washers."

Internal Revenue Service gets new authority to conduct undercover operations.

Gentlemen, this started out as a simple 3 page bail out bill submitted by Bush. The Dems just porked it to death. Now, who's going to pay for all the pork? Just wait until after November.....

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10057618-38.html?tag=nl.e433

This started out as a 3 page bill - who blew it on the first vote?
Why was it not passed the first time? The newest democratic finger pointing will be - Well, we had a deal, until J. McCain went to the House republicans and told them to ask for more. It was an across the isle handshake agreement to all the ones who are getting re-elected in their respective districts. Many people warned about what would happen, it was scripted perfectly for what the normal is in DC, if you believe anything different then you haven't been paying attention to the last 20 years of DC politics. Both parties did this, and wanted this.

[FrodeMk3]

Well, if it is our money, and it pays taxpayers mortgages, or helps them stay in their homes, are not we getting our money back

That only works' if they don't raise taxes as a result of all this shenanigans, Sixpence. Otherwise, if they do, we wind up paying up the difference anyway-and we're also stuck with a tax that might not go away, even after everything's square on the ledger.

And the inflation still has the potential to be...staggering.

[Steve]

Honestly, I owe much more than my house is worth, but my payments are current.  I am starting to wonder if I should go into default so I can get some of my tax money back from this joke of a bail out.  Thoughts?

[Nwbie]

Honestly, I owe much more than my house is worth, but my payments are current.  I am starting to wonder if I should go into default so I can get some of my tax money back from this joke of a bail out.  Thoughts?

Steve

many in here are probably in the same boat, my thoughts, hold on and be rational. I believe the housing market was inflated-yes, but not to the extent of with this current situation that all properties will remain at the current "so called" levels. I think the market will rebound, but maybe not to the extent it was at, just because with the reduction of available purchasers, the supply and demand economics of it are way off.
I believe it will depend on the market, if there is a housing "glut" in your area, the values will be slow to rise, but if, like most areas of the country, the actual glut is in high priced homes, there is always going to be a demand for the "middle income" homes. Granted, middle income will be determined by your area, ie. Peoria IL middle income would be considered lower income in Seattle WA.
You still need to protect your credit qualifications, go into forclosure and it takes years and years(maybe forever now) to clear up your history. Credit will still be a major factor in this economy, this "bailout" is aimed at protecting the credit market-not eliminating it, the worlds economy is run on credit and always will be, protectionism will not take over, it will always be a world economy. The internet is the best example of that. Information is instantaneous, so is financial information, it is impossible to let that go.

So - to answer, no, you would screw yourself in the long run. Even if you had to take a loss eventually on your home, you still had the tax credits, the roof over your head, and the comforts that cannot have a dollar value put on it. There are intangible assets to home ownership.

[lazs2]

I have never been enthusiastic about this bill.... not then.. not now but.

To be fair..  the latest version did not contain "pork".. not as I would define it anyway.. it is almost all tax breaks..

I never met a tax break that I did not like.  well..  there is  one.. the one where if you pay not taxes at all.. they give you "back" other taxpayers money.. that is not a tax break tho by any defenition except marx or osamabinbiden.

lazs

[alskahawk]

Honestly, I owe much more than my house is worth, but my payments are current.  I am starting to wonder if I should go into default so I can get some of my tax money back from this joke of a bail out.  Thoughts?

 If you stay in your house for a long time it shouldn't be too much of a problem. If you sell out in the next few years then your paper loss will become real. A default will ding your credit. If it goes to forclosure, the ding will be for up to 10 years. Essentially if you like your house. Stay with it. Clean up the rest of your finances.

 Keep all of your reciepts and touch base with your accountant and check out the tax implications if you sell. You would have to pay capital gains if you make money so you might get a deduction if you lose money. Also make sure your lower value is noted for your local property taxes. You may get some savings there. Look at a refinance if the rates drop a couple of points below your current rate.

 Check out this guy @ Dave Ramsey.com  His book, "Total Money Makeover" has excellent basic finance information.
 

[Nwbie]

I have never been enthusiastic about this bill.... not then.. not now but.

To be fair..  the latest version did not contain "pork".. not as I would define it anyway.. it is almost all tax breaks..

I never met a tax break that I did not like.  well..  there is  one.. the one where if you pay not taxes at all.. they give you "back" other taxpayers money.. that is not a tax break tho by any defenition except marx or osamabinbiden.

lazs

Pork - tax break to makers of wooden arrows.... not pork? who gets donations to their coffers from these guys?
Rum producers? - tax break? - who gets donations to their coffers from these guys?
Tell me what the above had to do with the credit crisis in the financial market, it was pork, plain and simple, reps were bribed to vote.
Next time federal hwy ** 2 miles from your house is crumbling and nothing is being done about it because rum producers got a tax break, go buy some Bacardi, shoot your foot with a wooden arrow, and moan, its what you agreed to.

[alskahawk]

Pork - tax break to makers of wooden arrows.... not pork? who gets donations to their coffers from these guys?
Rum producers? - tax break? - who gets donations to their coffers from these guys?
Tell me what the above had to do with the credit crisis in the financial market, it was pork, plain and simple, reps were bribed to vote.
Next time federal hwy ** 2 miles from your house is crumbling and nothing is being done about it because rum producers got a tax break, go buy some Bacardi, shoot your foot with a wooden arrow, and moan, its what you agreed to.

 The one i liked was the tax break for Nascar. Nascar is one of the most profitable enterprises in business. And it is primarily owned by one family.

[lazs2]

you haven't convinced me..  how is a tax break "pork"?

How is not taking someones money a bad thing?    You have a different math than us who believe in individual freedom..  a "new math" where punishing some people is ok but not others based on.. 

They can afford it?

you are a sick puppy.. not sure you are capable of getting well..  envy is one of the deadly sins.

lazs

[FrodeMk3]

you haven't convinced me..  how is a tax break "pork"?

How is not taking someones money a bad thing?    You have a different math than us who believe in individual freedom..  a "new math" where punishing some people is ok but not others based on.. 

They can afford it?

you are a sick puppy.. not sure you are capable of getting well..  envy is one of the deadly sins.

lazs

He did have one very valid point, Lasz. Unless you are the owner of an island distillery, or you make practice arrows for youth archery, or you are Bill France jr., These tax breaks do not apply to you, or me. If a tax breaks' not considered pork, I don't really know what to consider this...Not taking money from certain people can be considered giving (tax) money to certain people.

This Bill is still the most Bogus thing that gov't. has done since the Bay of Pigs.

[Nwbie]

you haven't convinced me..  how is a tax break "pork"?

How is not taking someones money a bad thing?    You have a different math than us who believe in individual freedom..  a "new math" where punishing some people is ok but not others based on.. 

They can afford it?

you are a sick puppy.. not sure you are capable of getting well..  envy is one of the deadly sins.

lazs

Laz - u are unbelievable - where do you get envious out of that?
Do you even understand what is meant by pork barrel politics?
First actually educate yourself, then comment, you are so full of your own narrow minded beliefs, that even if someone says - whoa- you jump up and try to justify it more, the whole problem with this country, justify without thought and what the consequences are for later generations.
Call Edith to bring you another beer Arch and sit down and look up pork barrel politics
And then tell me what the H wooden arrows and rum have to do with all of this.

[lazs2]

sorry guys..  any tax break for anyone is a good one so far as I am concerned.   The only ones that I oppose are the socialist "earned income tax credit"   people who have not paid taxes are given my and your money.

If a tax break is pork then bring on the pork..  give it to everyone who you can.   Every time you buy anything that can be even tied in any nebulous way to "hunting" you are charged a huge tax rate that pays for conservation.   If you buy arrows for kids to shoot hay bales with..  you are not hunting.. just as my ammo is not used for hunting.

All.. or almost all taxes in this country are pure robbery.   pure undisguised socialism and meddling.   Our tax rates on investment are about the second worst in the world.   

Again..   I am for any "Pork" that is a tax break for anyone.    I believe that there is a huge difference between a tax break for someone and our tax money going to some state so that they can build a monument or a library for barbie dolls or a bridge to nowhere.. 

Spending money on pork is.. well..  pork..  not taking it away from someone in the first place is just morality at work.. something we see too little of in this country.

lazs