Stick stiring has found us!

[aircat]

 I was tooling along in a spit and scoping out the fight well below me... major fur ball and I didnt like the odds... it was even numbers below but I saw about 6 or 7 more ib to the fur. heard a report of a 17 not far from me and the reporter said no way he'd be able to climb to it... with a few friend of the 17 near by. I turn vector and wep on all the way... caught up to the 17 and had picked up a tail.. a 109... he gained on me I gained on the 17... when the chase was nearing the end we had gotten to about 30 - 32k... JUST as I started to open fire I saw the 17 flipping and flopping around like a fish on a hook... at first I said to my self "hmm lag" then it started to warp from side to side... about 3/4 of the screens lenth... "hmm ok... bad lag" closing dancing and trying to get a bead... all the time the 109 was catching up and needed to do somethign rather soon... then WHOOOM 17 went from 300 - 400  in from of me to 700+ behind me... I dodged the 109 he zoomed by (smart fo the 109 not to force a turn fight) ok now I had the 17... grinning from ear to ear I was... the lag seemed to have passed and the 17 was once again perfect and level... steady.... once again gaining... I closed to 500 this time.. flip flopping again!!! check beacon.. green... green.... green..... then come the warps from side to side.... then WHOOOOM 700+ behind me AGAIN.... finally he was heading away... so I started a heavy climb.....36k and dived as fast as that bird could handle... well being jumped at that closure he started to jump around when I got to firing range.. but not soon enough.... I THOUGHT WE HAD LEFT STICK STIRING IN BRAND "W"! then watching closer the rest of the night...... I saw MORE AND MORE starting it! and last thing.... make discos kills! I had repeatadly filled someone with holes or givin chase looking for the clean shot only to have them disconnect on me.... I know many will reply "well its only a game" ok I'll by that ... so why you need to stick stir and disconnect when you are having problems?

will I buy this game? hmm quite possible... but as it stands the things that need attention before full version release are.
1:FM many planes seem off... even if its just in relation to one another
2:smoothing program for stick stirring dweebs
3:propper kill counting
but as of yet the MAIN thing I see is better and better grafix..... which are great... but dont help the mechanics of the game...

[IceNine]

Hm.

Isn't the side to side oscillation a maneuver designed to increase the distance that his plane is traveling, as well as bleeding his airspeed thus forcing you to blow by him and lose angle?

The disco'ing to dump a kill is just sick though, as is the teleporting lag thing. Nothing as frustrating as finding the sweet spot, lining it up, and having the target disappear, only to reappear 2K away and at right angles, while everyone else was nice and smooth.

[214CaveJ]

yes, the back and forth left/right turns are for causing an overshoot.  It's called scissors.  
Scissoring refers to a series of reversing break turns in which two aircraft turn back and forth toward each other, each trying to force the other out in front.

[leonid]

Any aircraft that discos  while in the air after receiving hits should be flagged as a kill for the player registering the most crucial hits.  Nothing I loath more than being cheated out of a hard-earned kill.  With ya on that, aircat.

[Vermillion]

CaveJ, He is speaking of a sudden back and forth rudder induced skid, that causes warps and was quite popular with buff drivers in WB's as a defensive manuever until just recently. Basically the pilot is just kicking his rudder pedals back and forth as fast as he can, and then the inevitable net lag takes over and you get warps.

However it would be quite amusing to watch a B-17 try a rolling scissors :-)

------------------
Vermillion
WB's: (verm--), *MOL*, Men of Leisure, Goldlandia
AW's: (verm) ACCS, Aerial Crowd Control Services, Cland

[aircat]

 this was by no means rolling scissors or any type of scissors... when it was an instantanous flop frop its belly to its back... modern jets dont even have this roll rate... as for side to side... at 20 FPS Im not looking for perfect smoothness but I dont expect to see a d200 left to right jump with a green beacon... stick stirring is plain childish... yes its bad that the buffs dont have gunners yet... but Im not letting them trash our bases just cuase they dont want shot at... it a way its nice not having gunners cause it forces them to actualy do what they was intended to do.. bomb... not be an ackstar. but it dont end with buffs... Ive seen countless fighters pulling it too... and the #s of those doing it are growing... this is not to "dis" the buffs and yes I want to see the buffs get gunners... I too from time to time (albe it rarely) fly buffs. Im here to play a WWII sim not a star trek sim with warps. I was hoping to find a sim with a higher mentality level then the standard "Quake Birds". I guess its also a lot of the other sims with thier easy flight modes and "Virtual Cockpits"... more then once Ive been asked what key it is to remove the cockpit and still see the gauges. my awnser to those who want that type of game is simple realy... go to the tower hit the "Quit" button and go to the local game software retailer... and if any of the readers are those from EAW and WWII fighters and not other experiance... NO VIRTUAL COCKPITS AND NO THOSE *GAMES* DO NOT HAVE FULLY REALISTIC FLIGHT MODELS!!! close counts in horse shoes and hand gernades not sims. sorry for the added rant... just torques me to no end.

[214CaveJ]

Ok, dinnae know exactly what stick stirring was (not a WB pilot =)

Vermillion-
chase me when I'm flyin a 17, and you'll see a scissors with a 17 =)  And yes, I kick my rudder pedals full to the direction of the turn and I can't get the bird to roll as fast as I want her to.  But I dinnae kick full-left-full-right as fast as I can.  I just about stand the bird on her wing before I reverse my roll, and the idea is to reduce the shooter's angle as much as possible while trying to cause him to over shoot =)

[-floo-]

Well I'm glad I'm not the only one who has seen stick stirring. I saw my fist AH stick stirrer a few nights ago when I was closing on a spit. He was flying nice and smooth til I landed a couple pings. Then quite suddenly he was flopping around like a fish out of water. I thought I left this kind of thing back in Brand W. Aircat you're right, the childish stick stirring so-called "defensive manouver" has found its way to AH.

I know who it was too as I just saw him kill a country mate. My only regret was that I didn't call him out in the global channel. Next time I will.

-floo- fangs out

------------------
333rd Red Dawgs
JG 5 Eismeer

[leonid]

What would you call this?

While in a left 45 degree bank:
o Hard left rudder + hard pitch up
o Corkscrew/stall Roll 270 degrees counterclockwise
o Hard right rudder + pitch neutral/down

It's possible that people are interpreting this as stick stirring when in fact it's a snap roll.  If you've seen that type of behavior from a Rook La-5FN, it could very well have been me doing a snap roll.

[funked]

I haven't flown AH for a couple of revs, but I noticed that microwarps were bad.

The current WB filtering (aka smoothing code) is the best I've seen, so AH has a tough challenge to match that.

But what you describe, Aircat, sounds more like an FM problem on the B-17 than anything else.  HTC stated that the B-17 FM for now is rudimentary - just enough to get the plane flying.  Assuming that control forces AND speed of control movement are taken into account in the future, the B-17 won't be capable of much stirring.

[aircat]

 Ive seen stick stirring (I was around some time before it happened in WB) and Im SURE it was... now I know better then to point fingers... I would like to add that this morning (still havent slept at the time) I was flying with someone (name with held) that I noticed had someone else on his 6 so went to clear him... I then seen the rapid rudder movements then followed buy a side to side warp then hasta la bye bye I didnt even see him... till he passes me from my 6 to wax his attacker. there was several that talked to him and asked him to stop. 2 or 3 of which was his own team mates including myself. to mention some of his replies:
"havent you heard of defensive moves"
"if its what you say it part of the game and Im going to keep doing it"
"if its cheating then Hi Tech wouldn't have put it in"
"its a game get over it"
needlesss to say he was jumped later by 5 others (2 spits and 3 109s) instead of diving in and clearing him, I figured to heck with it.... he made his bed now he can lay in it. but we dont need this type of person in AH thats going to exploit bugs. I figure once (if) HT adds some sort of smoothing, he wont last long. so far HT has an increadable project started and would hate to see its early death cause of people like this.

( a note to those who think this is acceptable play: If you wish to cheat you can always get Diablo, Quake, Unreal, and many more, please dont bring that attitude into sims. as the abr. "sim" means "simulation", not game cheat central.)