109 G6 missing something?

[BiPoLaR]

The G-6 model, the most produced Bf 109 version, had heavier armament. The G-6/U4 variant with Rüstsatz R6 was armed with two 13 mm MG 131 above the engine, a 30 mm MK 108 cannon shooting through the propeller hub and one 20 mm MG 151/20 in a 'pod' under each wing. The G-6 was very often fitted with assembly sets, used to carry bombs or a drop tank, for use as nightfighter, or to increase fire power by adding rockets or extra guns. During 1943, a number of improvements were gradually introduced for the type's benefit : armoured glass head-rest ('Galland Panzer') (early 1943), and the introduction of the clear-view 'Erla Haube' canopy (autumn 1943) improved visibility -especially to the rear, and a taller tail unit improved stability at high speeds. The introduction of the WGr. 21cm under-wing mortar/rockets and the 30 mm MK 108 cannon increased firepower. Certain production batches of the Gustav were fitted with aileron Flettner tabs to decrease stick forces at high speeds. Advanced radio/navigational equipment was also introduced. The MK 108 (German: Maschinenkanone - Machine Cannon) was an autocannon (30mm calibre) manufactured in Germany during World War II by Rheinmetall-Borsig for use in aircraft. ... The MK 108 (German: Maschinenkanone - Machine Cannon) was an autocannon (30mm calibre) manufactured in Germany during World War II by Rheinmetall-Borsig for use in aircraft. ...



My question is: Why dont we have the option of having a 30mm for it?
And how hard would it be to put one in?

[evenhaim]

My guess would be that there where to few of the 30mm version produced, IIRC it was a high alt varient.

[Wmaker]

I'll quote myself again:

AHs G-6 has features that suggest it being from early production (high antenna mast and the lack of D/F) and it also has glass armor in place of the steel armor which suggests that it's a mid production aircraft. Most of the later production aircraft had the Revi 16B gunsight while the early production aircraft had the gunsight that is on AH G-6 right now, the Revi C/12D. Although many G-6s that were produced as late as mid-44 still had the C/12D sight and the same canopy that is featured in AH (can be seen in many G-6s that went to Finland, for example). Glass armor was added as a number of players (me included) wished its inclusion as we saw the preview shots that featured the steel armor.

Copy-pasting D/F-loop antenna's 3d-model from G-14 to G-6 and clipping its radio mast a bit would essentially make it an accurate representation of a mid-production G-6. Of course one could argue that changing the Glass armor back to steel armor would then make it an accurate early-production plane, but I have to ask...what purpose exactly would that serve? Right now we have a nice selection of all the major mass-produced canopy-variations which adds nice variety. G-6 was the most produced variant of the BF 109. Why should it be only restricted to depict the earliest model possible? Saying that 30mm gets abused in events doesn't really fly as long as we have P-51s with 4 .50s and 3xB-20 La-7s for example. There should rather be efforts for adding tools for CMs to define the available loadouts in events than for removal of loadouts that actually saw a lot of use. Lets think about a re-run of The Ruhr-scenario for example without the MK-108 option. By late summer of '43 the cannons were available. Again, there were plenty of G-6s flying with 30mm cannons AND featuring the exact same canopy that AH's G-6 already has (Canopy is the only feature that changed in production that matters AH-wise.). So, as it really isn't in HTC's interest to add 5 different G-6 subvariants they chose the one we have now. Weather it has the shorter antenna mast/d/f-loop or not shouldn't really matter...hell, it doesn't have a pitot tube either and since last version it started having a retractable tail wheel!

I think the reason why the MK-108 was removed in the first place was because Wotan suggested it when pyro asked about the 109-load outs and pyro went ahead with it. I disagree with the decision for the above reasons. Since it is removed I doubt it will be re-introduced anytime soon unfortunately.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,238516.15.html

[BiPoLaR]

I'll quote myself again:

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,238516.15.html

Ty, I just read those posts.
So we use to have the 30mm option.
why dont we still have it?
and yes we need the 109s to be updated BAD.

[Wmaker]

why dont we still have it?
and yes we need the 109s to be updated BAD.

Read my quote again:

I think the reason why the MK-108 was removed in the first place was because Wotan suggested it when pyro asked about the 109-load outs and pyro went ahead with it. I disagree with the decision for the above reasons. Since it is removed I doubt it will be re-introduced anytime soon unfortunately.

109's are already updated (2005) and look quite ok IMO. Here's the thread pyro started about 109 load outs before the graphical update of the 109s: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,162110.0.html. Pyro probably got frustrated about the usual bickering/signal-noise ratio of that thread and edited out his post. Anyway, he was asking for which load out should be included to the new updated 109s.

[JB11]

With the removal of the 30mm, I personally quit taking it up as much.  Was a personal favorite of mine.  But that is me and I cannot speak for everyone.   

 

[toonces3]

I would fly the other 109 models more if they had a 30mm.

As it stands now, the K4 is the best non-perk plane in the game.   

[crockett]

I would fly the other 109 models more if they had a 30mm.

As it stands now, the K4 is the best non-perk plane in the game.   

The K4 is my favorite plane but it's far from uber. It's a very hard plane to fly if you fly it to it's full potential, which is the main reason I like it. The thing flys like a brick compared to even the other 109's. The only clear advantage it has is the power the engine produces which makes it a pure killing machine down on the deck, if you know how to fly it.

Calling it uber has always irritated me, because that plane is a challenge to fly to it's limits. I don't think there is any other aircraft in the game that I have to work the throttle, flaps and rudder so much in a fight. While the plane is a out right killing machine in the right hands, it's far from uber in the hands of a average AH player. Which is the reason you don't see lots of K4's in the mix compared to other aircraft, even though a lot of kills are landed in K4's.

Typically when you come across a K4, you have a pretty high chance that they will be a reasonably good pilot. Reason I say that is because the K4 really has no other purpose in life but to kill things in the air, It doesn't carry bombs it just carries big slugs. You aren't going to run into noobs who are there to shoot radar's or kill ords, you will 9 times out of 10 be up aginst someone whom wants to fight. Typically people that are looking for easy kills don't fly K4's unless they know what they are doing which tends make it seem like the plane is uber.

As for the other 109's wih 20mm's like the G6.. Well I'll admit, I don't fly them because they only have 20mm's, so I'd love to see the G6 get a 30mm. I'll be honest and say I live on 1 shot kills hence the main reason I like the K4. 

[JB11]

The K4 is my favorite plane but it's far from uber. It's a very hard plane to fly if you fly it to it's full potential, which is the main reason I like it. The thing flys like a brick compared to even the other 109's. The only clear advantage it has is the power the engine produces which makes it a pure killing machine down on the deck, if you know how to fly it.

Calling it uber has always irritated me, because that plane is a challenge to fly to it's limits. I don't think there is any other aircraft in the game that I have to work the throttle, flaps and rudder so much in a fight. While the plane is a out right killing machine in the right hands, it's far from uber in the hands of a average AH player. Which is the reason you don't see lots of K4's in the mix compared to other aircraft, even though a lot of kills are landed in K4's.

Typically when you come across a K4, you have a pretty high chance that they will be a reasonably good pilot. Reason I say that is because the K4 really has no other purpose in life but to kill things in the air, It doesn't carry bombs it just carries big slugs. You aren't going to run into noobs who are there to shoot radar's or kill ords, you will 9 times out of 10 be up aginst someone whom wants to fight. Typically people that are looking for easy kills don't fly K4's unless they know what they are doing which tends make it seem like the plane is uber.

As for the other 109's wih 20mm's like the G6.. Well I'll admit, I don't fly them because they only have 20mm's, so I'd love to see the G6 get a 30mm. I'll be honest and say I live on 1 shot kills hence the main reason I like the K4. 

Well said, I totally agree.   

[evenhaim]

what that strafing chic  said.

[toonces3]

I didn't say it was uber, I said it was the best plane in the game.

This Spit 16 is uber.

[Anaxogoras]

Our current 109G-6 is supposed to represent an early '43 version when the Mk 108 cannon was rare.  However, by the summer of '43, many, many 109G-6s were either delivered with the Mk 108, or had it installed in the field.  It would not be an exaggeration to say that out of the 12,000+ produced, thousands of 109G-6s were armed with the Mk 108 cannon.

But, as usual, the 109 gets snubbed.  We still don't have a G6/AS or G14/AS high altitude variant, we still don't have the G-10, nor a scenario friendly (Africa) 109E-7.   If Il-2 can include these aircraft, and many more, why can't AH?

[evenhaim]

If Il-2 can include these aircraft, and many more, why can't AH?

hmm the difference is a huge devolpment staff

[Anaxogoras]

Nah, the point is that these are variants and shouldn't be too hard to include.  Creating a whole new aircraft, yeah, it helps to have a large development staff.  But another 109 or another Spit shouldn't be such a big deal.

[Karnak]

There were not "many, many" Bf109G-6s produced in 1943 with the 30mm cannon.  "Many, many" would imply close to 50%, if not the majority of those produced.

If you want to be convincing, post actual production numbers of both 20mm and 30mm armed Bf109G-6s, broken down by at least to quarterly numbers, preferably monthly.  Don't use completely subjective language like "many, many".