Just curious.

[Dream Child]

Add the La-7 to the list of fighters that shot down a 262.

I know of at least one case of a P-51 shooting down a 163. Anyone have stats on 163 kills?

[BnZs]

I re-read Hub Zemke's book this weekend. He of course mentioned that the 56th refused to trade in their Jugs for Mustangs, but actually seems to have considered it something of a mistake. "Failed to see the potential" of the P-51 were his words. He was of the opinion that the where the Jug was superior in performance above 25K and successfully bnz'ed the Luftwaffe to death, the P-51 had the performance edge over the 109s and 190s at all altitudes and was comparably maneuverable. He also felt like the P-51's range was a big help and towards the end of the war the P-51 squadrons were starting to get more kills than the Jug squadrons because they could range farther and longer.

So, once again, nothing against the Jug, my favorite U.S. airplane, but from the horse's mouth, the P-51 was an improvement in long-range escort and dogfighter role.

[Wingnutt]

A D-40 with 50% + center line drop (plenty of fuel for 90% of MA type activity) and the small 8 gun pack (still over 2,000 rounds) climbs at 3,600 fpm..

better than the 51, better than the D25, or the N. 

I never got into the N for 2 reasons..

1: 5 eny, being bish, I Have no intention of making my primary ride a plane that half the time I cant even fly.

2: the WEP...   all it seem to do is get me in trouble...  always seemed to run out at the WORST time,and since in the N it makes a such a HUGE difference, running out feels like getting dropped on your face. of course this is in no way a fault of the aircraft, but more a fault of my use of it... but of course that makes it no less of a factor (for me)

[BnZs]

A D-40 with 50% + center line drop (plenty of fuel for 90% of MA type activity) and the small 8 gun pack (still over 2,000 rounds) climbs at 3,600 fpm..

better than the 51, better than the D25, or the N. 

I got ~2,500 fpm near sea level with that load out on MIL. That load out gave me 56 minutes according to the E6B. I took a P-51D up with 50% internal. That loadout gave me ~3,000 FPM on MIL and 51 minutes.

On WEP, I got ~3,300 FPM out of the Jug and ~3,400 FPM out of the Mustang.

Obviously the P-51 would be able to fly and fight for much longer AFTER any drop tanks were discarded, as important a consideration as pure range when loaded down with drops IMHO.

Huh, turns out that Hub was right about the climb rate of the Jug relative other planes. How remarkable.

[Wingnutt]

3,300 with he heavy gun pack, try the light 8 gun.

yea, the 51 climbs faster on mil, but thats not really an issue, they only time climb is an issue is if you are in a hurry to reach alt, in which case your going to use wep anyway, and the Jug climbs faster on wep than the pony.

and yea the pony will go farther, but again, not much of a factor.. you get close to an hour with the jug and that fuel load out, and if you cut rpms a tad when at cruise, that number increases by ALOT.. so range is a non issue.. (most of the time)

[BnZs]

3,300 with he heavy gun pack, try the light 8 gun.

yea, the 51 climbs faster on mil, but thats not really an issue, they only time climb is an issue is if you are in a hurry to reach alt, in which case your going to use wep anyway, and the Jug climbs faster on wep than the pony.

Nope, I just checked it, I used the 267rpg, centerline tank, and 50%.

*EDIT* I checked the  climb rate of the P-47D-40 at 50% WITHOUT the tank. I got around 3,475.

[Wingnutt]

Nope, I just checked it, I used the 267rpg, centerline tank, and 50%.

*EDIT* I checked the  climb rate of the P-47D-40 at 50% WITHOUT the tank. I got around 3,475.

thats odd, maybe I need to go back to "reading your climbrate 101"  I fly the jug ALOT..


crap.. thanks, now its gonna FEEL like it climbs slower to me..

 

[BnZs]

thats odd, maybe I need to go back to "reading your climbrate 101"  I fly the jug ALOT..


crap.. thanks, now its gonna FEEL like it climbs slower to me..

 

Although the P-51 out-climbs the Jug when loaded for comparable flight time, the P-47D-40 was surprisingly competitive.

I REALLY want to see a P-47M now. Or a D-11 with a paddle-blade prop (and hopefully cleared to pull 72" MAP as a perk option.)

[Guppy35]

Although the P-51 out-climbs the Jug when loaded for comparable flight time, the P-47D-40 was surprisingly competitive.

I REALLY want to see a P-47M now. Or a D-11 with a paddle-blade prop (and hopefully cleared to pull 72" MAP as a perk option.)

Another good example of a bird that had teething troubles.  I seem to recall that it took an engine change on just about every 47M in the 56th to keep the Mustang from coming to the 56th, and this was after Zemke left for the 479th

[Wingnutt]

Although the P-51 out-climbs the Jug when loaded for comparable flight time, the P-47D-40 was surprisingly competitive.

I REALLY want to see a P-47M now. Or a D-11 with a paddle-blade prop (and hopefully cleared to pull 72" MAP as a perk option.)

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,240792.0.html

 

[Rich46yo]

... as if the war on the Eastern borders of the Reich, which began fully two years before the largest American bomber streams started flying over European skies, was a nice tea party amongst ground hugging grunts.

Soviet aircraft were pitted against the cream of the Reich's most powerful land AND aerial resources before the first P-47 even saw ETO for the first time, which by 1943, after the restructuring of the VVS, refused to stay a cannon fodder, and became something to fear even for the best of Luftwaffe personnel.

None of them ever got the glory spotlight as the P-47 or the P-51, but you can be sure their contribution as an aerial power striking against Nazi Germany wasn't anything less than any P-47 or P-51 - perhaps, even more. None of the VVS had any "range" issues in the first place, since the frontline was smack in front of their home fields where they were flying out of.

So whenever we feel the need to tie the word 'contribution' with the word 'Allies', let's try not to forget the war on the Eastern front.

I dont but two points. My frames of reference were P-47 vs P-51. Secondly the Soviet air force was almost strictly a tactical air force, and while yes they did engage a lot of talent of the Luftwaffe dont forget a great deal of talent was over the skies of Germany positioned against the bomber streams too, of whom Hitler took the destruction of German cities personal.

Another point. The easter front air war didn't ratchet up much before the strategic air war on the western front did. First off much of the Soviet air force was destroyed on the ground at the beginning of Barbarossa and the rest was destroyed in the air by the Luftwaffe. Soviet air craft industry then had to pretty much be picked up and carted east of the Urals where it did make a remarkable recovery. But thats for another thread.

[BnZs]

Well, you see, people like a Good Guy vs. Bad Guy match-up for the most part, so we like the Western front. 

Whereas Hitler vs. Stalin is more like watching "Celebrity Deathmatch" 

Of course, before I started playing AHII, I didn't know so many people were fascinated by the planes and pilots of the VVS. How else to explain so many La's? 

And let us never forget, for Eastern Europe, Hitler vs. Stalin was like a rabbit watching wolf vs. bear-whoever wins, rabbit still loses! 

[bongaroo]

Well, you see, people like a Good Guy vs. Bad Guy match-up for the most part, so we like the Western front. 

Whereas Hitler vs. Stalin is more like watching "Celebrity Deathmatch" 

Of course, before I started playing AHII, I didn't know so many people were fascinated by the planes and pilots of the VVS. How else to explain so many La's? 

And let us never forget, for Eastern Europe, Hitler vs. Stalin was like a rabbit watching wolf vs. bear-whoever wins, rabbit still loses! 

What got you PnG'd so you have to come back with a new name BnZ?

[BnZs]

Bong: Apparently my sarcastic sig line about the new O'Club policy of not discussing politics, race, any of that fun stuff was derogatory and disrespectful.

From now on I shall confine myself to calling others tards, twits, and castrati over how they play the game, all will be fine. 

Anyway, my new BBS name matches my game name, which is a good thing. Now people can look up my score to throw in my face without coming up empty and thinking "SHADE!!!".

[Anaxogoras]

I dont but two points. My frames of reference were P-47 vs P-51. Secondly the Soviet air force was almost strictly a tactical air force, and while yes they did engage a lot of talent of the Luftwaffe dont forget a great deal of talent was over the skies of Germany positioned against the bomber streams too, of whom Hitler took the destruction of German cities personal.

Another point. The easter front air war didn't ratchet up much before the strategic air war on the western front did. First off much of the Soviet air force was destroyed on the ground at the beginning of Barbarossa and the rest was destroyed in the air by the Luftwaffe. Soviet air craft industry then had to pretty much be picked up and carted east of the Urals where it did make a remarkable recovery. But thats for another thread.

Or is it?

We are taught otherwise in high school history class, but the country that destroyed most of the German army and airforce is the Soviet Union, not the USA.  The numbers are indisputable.  Moreover, German aircraft production peaked in 1944, right under the nose of Allied strategic bombing.