Turning strategies.

[SgtPappy]

I prefer to never get into a TnB fight, but sometimes I need to in order to get things to move along more quickly.

Is it better to buffet just slightly in the turn? I was doing a lot of turn testing with a friend and he seems to always outturn me. He constantly keeps WEP on and he says that he 'shakes like a madman' as we turn fight. We're always flying the same plane with the same fuel loads at same alts, of course. No yoyos, or anything really.

I, on the other hand, am an E-fighter so I hate burning speed in a turn. I never really drop the flaps too often anymore and I never try to shake. As a result, my turning skills have gone to mush. Even in my old Spitfire, I'm always caught running away.. even against an identical Spitfire with the same fuel load.

I know Widewing states that excessive shaking is detrimental to turn radius and turn rate, but is a slight amount of buffeting good?

[Agent360]

As everyone knows I fly the K4 which turns like a brick compared to real "turny" planes. But how is it that I consistently out turn or at least equal turn other planes.

The answer is I fly my plane to the absolute maximum performance envelope. I will drop full flaps, use wep and control my nose drop by treading on the rudder and use very very shallow yo-yo's to keep enough speed to continue the turn. Pulling at first to the black out then to the maximum buffet to the point if I pull more I will snap roll or just loose enough alt to hit the ground. The trick is to NOT hit the ground and NOT snap roll.

It is true that you will loose "turn rate" the slower you go. But provided your target is doing the same thing then you are esentially equal in energy.

Now with the same planes if one pulls a maximum performance turn...ie flying on the edge of stall and the other flys a max turn "rate" turn then you will get out turned to the point of giving up a gun solution. However there are several things one can do to counter this especially if you can maintain more energy even in the same plane. The question is will you allow a kill shot in the process of maneuvering at max turn "rate". Can you effectivly evade the guns on the one out turning you?

A lot of this has to do with the "angles". If you give them up too early and allow yourself to be closed on even though you are going faster then you are in guns. You simply get "cut off at the pass" so to speak. This is a give and take situation. You may get out turned but if you stay faster you can use that energy keep seperation and away from guns. On the other hand if you panic at the first sight of guns and pull harder you will then be in guns again. You have to make a choice EARLY based on how much " cutting of at the pass" is happening. If you do not match the max turn radius then you will be GIVING angles which means a gun solution. However if you choose to maneuver differently you can counter the angles you are giving to the slower better turn RADIUS and convert them back to your favor.

Technically the numbers don't lie. A certain plane will have X turn rate and radius. The question here is can you FLY your plane at the same performance level as your opponent. Did you keep enough energy to start with? Did you give angles big time too early and now your out of energy contantly in guns no matter what you do?

If you want to use max turn RATE instead of max turn RADIUS then you must keep your energy. You MUST keep seperation and out of guns. And you can't just keep turning. You have to convert your energy to angles at some point or you will eventually just slow down and be in guns.

Agent360

[uptown]

It depends on the situation. I fly the 51d mostly and getting it slow like that isn't the best thing to do.But I always use yo-yos to cut the corner and allow me some room to gain speed if I need to. I don't know how long you've been flying but if you haven't got the stall limiter off you should turn it off asap. And don't use flat turns and try to stay on top of the target.

[Murdr]

Aces High has the stall buffet kick in if any point of the wings are in a stall condition.



As you can see in the screenshot there are many points of lift computed in the AH model.  From what I recall from testing, just inside the buffet at WEP (if availible) yields the best sustained rate of turn.  Though going too deep (eg. spreading the stall condition to further points across the wings) into the buffet does have a deteriorating effect on your turn performance.

Regarding flaps the answer is not so easy.  Each model aircraft has its own optiumum configuration for sustained rate of turn.  In some models the difference in turn rate between flap settings is negligatble, so there is little difference in the time it takes to turn 360 at full flaps, while adding the benefits of a smaller turn radius.  While in other models the "sweet spot" may be in a lower angle flap setting where your rate of turn will deteriorate quite a bit if you deploy them beyond that setting.

[WMLute]

if you haven't got the stall limiter off you should turn it off asap

was my 1st thought.

[SgtPappy]

Thanks, gents.

I do indeed have stall limiter off; even in my environment settings, it's set to zero.

The only time I will ever blow all my energy is if I'm fighting the exact same plane (given I know that they're in the same config). I've never really preferred flying in the buffet just slightly. I always wanted to avoid it, thinking I couldn't out turn anything.

Murdr, I will fly my planes inside the buffet from now on (in the duels), hopefully all goes well.

[The Fugitive]

Knowing "WHEN" to blow your "E" is as important as "saving" "E". Knowing which angles work for you, or your shot, is knowing when to burn that precious "E". Don't be afraid to burn it, just be sure your going to get something for it, ie: angle, or kill shot