Its tested, Hispano is too powerful tank killer

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Karnak:
They don't seem to think that any other nation's fighters should be modeled

Gimme Brewster Buffalo anyday  

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Ghosth:

Spits, F4U-C's, & typhoons will all kill tanks. Agreed, they should, historicaly the 20mm Hispano's did it, they should do it here. Wonderful

Excuse me but I dont think those did kill tanks on a one pass, not on Panzer IVh's front plate.

[Karnak]

Yes Fishu, one pass.  But not through the front.  It wasn't like an arcade game where the armor's health bar was reduced each time it got hit until it was destroyed.  Preety much the shell would either get through, or it wouldn't.  It might be on the first pass, it might never happen.

If you'd read his whole post you'd have noticed that that is what he identified as the potential problem.

Sisu
-Karnak

[Cobra]

Ahhh...so Fishu does admit that they DID kill tanks...Just not on 1 frontal pass...ok..then the Hispano's are fine..thank you all for coming.

Nothing more to see here, please move on to the next thread please..................uhm, sir, please...shows over, please move along now.

Cobra

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Karnak:
Yes Fishu, one pass.  But not through the front.  It wasn't like an arcade game where the armor's health bar was reduced each time it got hit until it was destroyed.  Preety much the shell would either get through, or it wouldn't.  It might be on the first pass, it might never happen.

If you'd read his whole post you'd have noticed that that is what he identified as the potential problem.

Not on one pass into its front.

[Karnak]

Fishu,
Perhaps you misunderstood me.  I did not say that they can kill tanks on one pass through the front.  Frankly, I don't think they could kill tanks through the front.

It would do you good to read the post you are replying to before you respond to it.  We are not all just out to contradict you.

If your misunderstanding was a result of English being a second language rather than haste, I apologize for any slight I may have caused.  Your english is certainly better than my finnish.  You can read and write english after all.

Sisu
-Karnak

[Fishu]

F4u-1c, alone with its four 20mm, can kill 6 tanks in a sortie without reloading.
Probably could kill even more with more accurate fire.

Now, how realistic is this?
Oh yeah, through side, 3-5 hits - KABOOM.

[Fishu]

Ahhh.. stupid IE isn't showing me any new replies since cobras post, so I got to improvise with netscape.

Karnak, I just wanted to say it clearly there so there are no misunderstandings..

Though, I still think that 3-5 hits to kill tank from its side is nonsense. (and one 3-5 hit from top of the tank on same flight)

I found out another issue also, it seems like tanks blows up easier with F4u-1c when you fire from 800-500 yards than if you do that from 300-200 yards.

Only times when tank has survived my F4u-1c attack, has been when I have took real good aim on a tank from 300-200 yards and shot good series of hits - but when I've begun shooting after 800 yards, tank has usually blown up with 800 to 500 yards shots.

I did close shots on 4 tanks, all but one survived from first pass, two made it through two passes and one did till 4th pass, when I shot him from 600 yards and he blew up.

[spora]

Anything less than a 30-37 mm AP round should not be able to penetrate and kill Pzkw IV tanks.

AT rifles in WWII were not effective against medium and heavy tanks.  One example, seems to be pretty much same as Hispano - Finnish 20mm AT rifle:

- weight of AP round 152 g
- muzzle velocity 800 m/s
- max range 6,5 km (probably could not kill a bird from that distance...)
- armour penetration at 60 degree ("almost" vertical) angle:
    distance      penetration
      300 m            20 mm
      500 m            16 mm
     1000 m             9 mm
(test results are from 1943 test firings)

So, if you fire Hispano cannons from a plane, hit angle for the most vulnerable parts (turret top, engine cover) is usually well below 60 degrees - even AP rounds should not penetrate.

Damage to tracks, track wheels and optics could be marginally possible.  Of course if commander is at the cupola, he's certainly in danger.

[Sorrow[S=A]]

Spora- Aircraft destroyed tanks in a different manner than land guns. Handheld and tank based anti tank weapons fired 1 round and if it penetrated it destroyed the tank. Aircraft fired hundreds per second so that 4, 5 or 10 high velocity explosive rounds hit the same area at roughly the same time. This meant that smaller high velocity projectiles were just as effective as higher caliber ones. A plate that is 122mm thick is just as vulnerable to getting split or torn off it's weld by 10 high velocy 20mm hitting at once as 1 75mm hitting it. Of course..  on land you can't go round and attack again at 200 mph   Better to go for 1 hit than try to get 10 or 20!

[Nashwan]

Look at the muzzle velocity of that anti-tank rifle. It's 80 m/s lower than the Hispano. The Hispano is also fired from a moving plane, which will increase it's MV to about 1000m/s, considerably more than the anti-tank rifle.

[Fishu]

I still don't see reason why Hispano can kill a tank with 5 shots into front plate from 500-800 yards.
(where did I get out 5 shots from 500-800 yards? from my F4u-1c and 6 panzer kill sortie)

[Toad]

Some of the films are up.

FW1K is a film of a test I did with Beemer during 1.20. Back then the "Hispano Howlers" were claiming a FW could not kill a plane at 1k.  

Cannon2 is the last part of the tests Mandoble and I did. If I recall, this is against a B17.

Cannon1, when it gets put up, is the long range F4U/FW tests. Don't know why it's not up there...I sent it the same time.

None of Mandoble's films are up. I don't know if he sent them.

Go to www.geocities.com/tas13th


Fishu, if you have film of killing a tank with just 5 nhit flashes, I'd sure like to see it. Can you put it up on a board somewhere?



[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 07-15-2000).]

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Toad:

Fishu, if you have film of killing a tank with just 5 nhit flashes, I'd sure like to see it. Can you put it up on a board somewhere?

Sorry, I don't ever remember to record fights even if I decide to...

But of course theres one pissed off tank driver that called me a cheater...

[Toad]

Somehow I figured that would be your answer.