A 190D clip

[Yenny]

190D does okay vs most new pilot in turners. However, as you take the D-9 and run them up peeps like 50cals Saantana, bipolar etc you just almost got no chance in a D-9 TnB otd vs 109s and spitties. I've try so many times using every trick I know but I have yet to outfly a spit that knows what he's doing=/. I've come to the conclusion that in D-9 I just can't make it outmanuever a well flown spitty.

[humble]

Actually its the opposite. The 190D has total and complete control of the fight regardless of the opposing pilot. However as pointed out elsewhere its the Indian not the arrow that matters the most. The pilots you mentioned are formidable in any plane. The 190D has the advantage that it minimizes an opponents ability to take control of a fight. so the spitty (or 109) driver is left to a set of defensive trap options. the better the pilot the better the chance to successfully set a trap. But a spit driver in an inferior position vs a 190D (or pony, hog, 109K etc) is totally dependent on the relative ability, experience and patience of the 190 driver.

Your much more likely to find me fighting a spitty in an SBD then a 190 but the principles are the same. Your matching the Indian vs the arrow. When you happen to find an arrow with an Indian on board your generally in a world of hurt. but to me in a 190D a spitfire of any flavor (except the 14) is just another minnow.

Now a spitfire in a superior position is an exceptionally hard enemy to overcome....even more so with any of the exceptional pilots above.

[Yenny]

Are we talkin OTD TNB doing 100-150 knts here or are we talkin maintaining E and setting trap etc using that E? because it's a completely different story.

[humble]

Why would a 190 ever get that slow on the deck vs anything? Now can a 150 knt 190 out work a 100knt spitfire from a reasonable AOT sure since he can use the vertical. The goal of the 190 is to force the spitty to stall and use the verticals to hammer it till submission or bingo ammo. nothing more nothing less....its a rinse and repeat type of ride with some capability for trickery...but its not a pretty ACM type of bird.

[dentin]

Actually its the opposite. The 190D has total and complete control of the fight regardless of the opposing pilot. However as pointed out elsewhere its the Indian not the arrow that matters the most. The pilots you mentioned are formidable in any plane. The 190D has the advantage that it minimizes an opponents ability to take control of a fight. so the spitty (or 109) driver is left to a set of defensive trap options. the better the pilot the better the chance to successfully set a trap. But a spit driver in an inferior position vs a 190D (or pony, hog, 109K etc) is totally dependent on the relative ability, experience and patience of the 190 driver.

Your much more likely to find me fighting a spitty in an SBD then a 190 but the principles are the same. Your matching the Indian vs the arrow. When you happen to find an arrow with an Indian on board your generally in a world of hurt. but to me in a 190D a spitfire of any flavor (except the 14) is just another minnow.

Now a spitfire in a superior position is an exceptionally hard enemy to overcome....even more so with any of the exceptional pilots above.

Appreciate all the films..very enlightening.  However, do you perhaps have any films of "high altitude" encounters, say above 20k.  Tried my hand at combat in a ponyD vs ponyD at or around 23k..needless to say (but I'll say it anyway) lost a lot of vital aircraft parts rather quickly...person I was "humoring" probably thought he was messing with someone who had "Parkinson disease" . Seem at that altitude it's a little more difficult to stay within the correct flight envelope...at least it was for me...but I'll keep plugging away, as they say...nothing like O.J.T. 

[Yenny]

That's what I mean by TnB, you're otd 100-150 rolling it out. But I guess that's just my definition of it. When I fly my D9 I usually avoid TnB, I'll rope and spiral climb a lot of other plane that hop on my tail all the time with ease. When a spit of so caught me down at 1-2k doing 200 knot. I gotta go into the tnb fight. Rarely happen cause I usually maintain 300 knts and about 5-7k alts. But it does happen and I do end up tnbing D9 OTD at 100 knts ish. It's fun I enjoy it a lot (when I win) that is =p. Usually most new pilots in Spit and other tnb plane I can duke it out otd at 100 knts np. But I just can't handle good pilots in it. That's what I mean by tnb otd.

[humble]

That's what I mean by TnB, you're otd 100-150 rolling it out. But I guess that's just my definition of it. When I fly my D9 I usually avoid TnB, I'll rope and spiral climb a lot of other plane that hop on my tail all the time with ease. When a spit of so caught me down at 1-2k doing 200 knot. I gotta go into the tnb fight. Rarely happen cause I usually maintain 300 knts and about 5-7k alts. But it does happen and I do end up tnbing D9 OTD at 100 knts ish. It's fun I enjoy it a lot (when I win) that is =p. Usually most new pilots in Spit and other tnb plane I can duke it out otd at 100 knts np. But I just can't handle good pilots in it. That's what I mean by tnb otd.

Your viewing a 3D puzzle along two planes. To me T&B refers to a sustained engagement with minimal separation. The idea to create constant pressure that forces a mistake. A plane like a 190 cant compete in the flat circle but can gain angular advantage thru the use of the verticals without much separation.

[Yenny]

Yea we just have different defintion of it that's all. I usually use the vert and rope + hammerhead in D9 to get rid of targets on my 6. If all else fail I'd have to go into a slow stall fight when all options exhausted.

[humble]

Yea we just have different defintion of it that's all. I usually use the vert and rope + hammerhead in D9 to get rid of targets on my 6. If all else fail I'd have to go into a slow stall fight when all options exhausted.

We don't have different definitions, we have a different level of understanding and a different level of aircraft handling. You dont ever have to engage in a stall fight with a spit and you dont ever have to run out of options ...only ammo. I dont fly much during the week but if you see me up anytime over the weekend just give me a shout if you want to got to the TA for a bit.

[BnZs]

You are defining "total control" as the ability to close the distance on most and run away from most.

[humble]

I'm referring to fights vs spitfires (or similiar) or planes in an inferior position that might have performance but cant gain E as quickly.

[BnZs]

I'm referring to fights vs spitfires (or similiar) or planes in an inferior position that might have performance but cant gain E as quickly.

Do you realize how much trouble the average AH player has getting a guns kill from any position OTHER than locked onto dead six at close range with little/no closure?

[humble]

Which is why the training corps and things like this BBS exist.

[BnZs]

Which is why the training corps and things like this BBS exist.

Gunnery is as much matter of repetitive practice+inherent talent rather imparted knowledge though.

My point in all of this is that if we are flying for our lives, the ability to engage and disengage at will would be the end-all be-all. But we are not, so other factors carry at least as much weight.

[Yenny]

I hate direct 6. hardest shot to make. I always go 4-8 high or 4-8 low. wingtip to wingtip nose to tail = HUGE target surface area=)