Perk planes, Icons, Chute Shooters Something for everyone.

[snafu]

Hi All,
 I've been thinking a lot about the proposed perk planes etc, and reading the posts both against and for this (There have been one or two honest). My only concern is that the points for kills etc probably will (and should IMO) be different for say an F4U1D & C and for the different 109's etc The current Icon setup doesn't really allow for this  (A 109 is a 109 as far as the icon is concerned) and I can see lesser marks of a particular aircraft being gangbanged to the extent that thier use may decline significantly. Something I would like to see is the removal of aircraft types from the Icons just have the pilot's name like we do for friendlies. This would mean that having earned your perk plane you would not find people abandoning dogfights etc just to come and take a pop or two. Also anyone who enjoys shooting chutes does it in open view. (Chute shooters don't bother me in particular  and If I've been stupid enough to open my chute at 10,000 ft I am grateful for the chance to get back into the action that bit quicker). But.... If I want to hunt the bastige down at least I can   .

I appreciate that certain good pilots would possibly become a target  (But I don't care I hate you all)  

Just my opinion. Flame away.....  

TTFN
snafu


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[This message has been edited by snafu (edited 12-21-2000).]

[SKurj]

I feel the current icons will be sufficient for the perk skies...
Right now you see F4u, u don't see whether its a D or C model..  109's. u can't tell whether thats an F4 or G10
With the current system you won't know if its a hi point or a low point plane which is fine.
The perk monsters, 152's Tempests etc well they'll be obvious, though if we all had 40" monitors we wouldn't need icons.  Names instead of icons is just downright BAD.  People would hunt people much more viciously than they would hunt an aircraft type +)

AKskurj

I'm guessing the little planes that could will again real soon +)

AKskurj

[This message has been edited by SKurj (edited 12-21-2000).]

[snafu]

Hi Skurj,
 Yes, after re reading my post I think you are probably right about the names idea having seen some of the whines on "ch 1" with the limited identification available of the enemy at present (xxxxx shot you down) it would probably develop into anarchy.

Perhaps the icon thing should go the other way. and leave the plnae off altogether (Just identify friend or foe) until at a much reduced range has been reached.

TTFN
snafu

[Replicant]

Ah, the plane type would make some sense... for example if a F4U-4 ever came into the game then they might not appear to be a perk plane because of their ID.

he he, should have flashing neon lights 'PERK', 'PERK'  

Nexx

[MrSiD]

My worry about the perk system is that if we already hear squeaking about certain players alt-monkeying above while the teammates take the fall.. Well, aren't those the same exact scoremongers which will get the perky planes first?

This will lead to following: The alt-monkeying scoreplayers will go even higher with their perks and join the battle even less trying to save their precious perk plane. Also it will make the majority of players - the wannabe perks - more vulnerable to them since they will have to fly early war non-popular planes..

So in the end we will have 10-20 players owning the perk system, bouncing the rest of the players picking up easy kills from the furball. Probably shooting down 1 perk plane with the worst plane in the game still wont earn you a perk.. What are the chances of doing that twice with the style of play above? hehe =)

I still remember my first logging to AH main.. I came fresh from WB but still the difference hit me like a slap on the face..

It felt like there was no way on earth to survive a fight without being bounced by someones friend in 10 first seconds. (1.03)
- This feeling will come all the more common with new players for sure.

-MrSiD

[miko2d]

 Isn't that what it was in real life? Few best pilots were flying the best available planes and accounting for 90% of all victories?

 You are afraid that the best players will own the best planes. But right now they do it anyway. Granted, you can fly the same plane, but does that help you? There was/is an absolutely deadly guy in WB who flew F4F almost exclusively. If anything, it helped him sucker in more victims.

 With a perk system there will be a chance that you will fly a better plane then the best player when you meet him, for all good it will do you.

 With a perk system it would be possible to have in the arena all planes that flew in the war in the same proportions that they were used. That will lead to more realistic and interesting tactics.

 For example, few available Me262 will be used for bomber intercept and they will avoid engaging P51's as much as any sane P51 will avoid them.

miko

[Karnak]

MrSiD,
That is one of my concerns as well.  Particularly that the kind of tactics that seem to be encouraged, once the perk is obtained, are the lone wolf, only look out for myself type of tactics.

miko2D,
Actually, no, that is not what it was like in real life.

This is something that gets repeated on these types of BBS' often and it annoys me every time.  It is something that would make sense in some ways and so has the veneer of validity.  However it just isn't true.

Airforces did not give their best aircraft to just their best pilots.

British aces did not all get Spit 14s or Tempest 5s.  America's best were not all placed into P-47Ms, P-51Hs and F4U-4s.  Germany's top ace flew the Bf109, not the Fw190 or Me262.  There were plenty of rookies flying Me262s.  Japan's Navy DID assemble a squadron of experts around the J2M Raiden "Jack" when it entered service, but that was only for a short while.  Many, like S. Sakai flew the A6M for the entire war.

Airforces are somewhat blind to skill when deciding who flies what.

Sisu
-Karnak

[miko2d]

 

Originally posted by Karnak:
miko2D,
Actually, no, that is not what it was like in real life.
Airforces did not give their best aircraft to just their best pilots.

 It is a fact that in Luftwaffe only the best pilots (trainees) were given a chance to fly 262. Crashing one in training got you removed from the jet training program according to the memoirs I've read. Even though the forced landing could have been caused by a flight of P51s showing up diring a practice session...

 But that is not what I ment. The best aces flew the same model of the aircraft that the rest of the squadron.

 They just got the most expert mechanics and armament techs spending more time on their planes - fixing, tuning, etc. They got the new planes and spare parts first. If someone was flying with an engine at 120% of it's resourse it was not likely to be a top ace. they had parts replaced rather then mended.
 If some part of an airplane developed a persistent problem (engine vibration, gunsite jitter, gun jams, noisy radio, engine overheating after 5 rather then 10 minutes of WEP, etc.) the ace was less likely to be told to bear with it.

 If you do not know the difference in performance of top-notch served machinery and the regular one, especially in the time of shortages, you have never served in the army...

 The documented difference in top speed of the same Spitfire with all the seals adjusted and painted more thoughroughly with a better paint was about 10 mph compared to the regular one.
  If the regular plane had a few holes hastily patched and a few panels bent that was even worse.

 Why do you think there are huge discrepancies (up to 25 mph) when it comes to reporting the speeds? The same planes really flew very differently depending on their conditions.

 Of course in russian airforce an ace also had an escort of a squadron or two specifically charged with protecting his 6 (and failure to do so was punished most severely).

miko

[loser111]

I agree with what snafu has to say.  More detailed icons would be great.  That way when im wafting along in my b17 and see F4UC coming at me high and fast i can start planning my next mission right then and there.  Pilot name option would also be great.  That way you would know what you were in for when you decided to bounce icons such as RWY, Citabria, Yeager ( sorry if I forgot other overmodelled pilots   )


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[Fishu]

Perk hunting will cause alot of whine..
Will be fun when you lose perk plane by dozen hunters dedicated to get you down, even if they have another dozen enemies right behind them..