Author Topic: Vehicles In General (Read 196 times)

Dingy · « **on:** October 16, 2000, 02:16:00 PM »

I cant put my finger on it but it seems with the new map, the main arena is FILLED with a plethora of tank and ostdweebs who endless respawn taking down hangers and shooting planes as they leave the runway.

Although I would prefer (as some others would) to COMPLETELY remove vehicles from the game, that the spawn points be moved further away from enemy bases. As it stands right now, vehicles spawn almost immediately within range of enemy bases, whereas planes have to spend at least 5 - 10 minutes climbing to alt.

PLEASEEE do something about it...I was online for 3 hours today and had 1 furball...rest of the time was spent either defending my base from ostys or attacking other VHs to keep them away. This is NO FUN AT ALL!

-Ding

Maverick · « **Reply #1 on:** October 16, 2000, 02:18:00 PM »

Gee, imagine what it would be like with "perk" vehicles!

Mav

Stiglr · « **Reply #2 on:** October 16, 2000, 04:02:00 PM »

The vehicles are one of the BIG reasons why I can't get into AH, despite my frequent "pop in" visits and earnest attempt to get into it.

The ground vehicle "game" is totally arcade when compared to the flight "sim"; it's an add-on at best and an abomination at worst.

You've got Ostwinds trundling all over the map as if they were as ubiquitous as PzKw IIIs. The terrain is not developed for a ground game (see Panzer Elite) for an idea on how it's done right). Neither are the optics and systems in the vehicles themselves.

The worst thing about them is, instead of carrying on a ground war, and going after road junctures, cities and encircling enemy units, the vehicles are dweebing around with the #1 objective of shelling/taking airfields and affecting the air war.

The whole concept needs to be scrapped and rethought. And whatever the outcome of that, at least model representative vehicles. From what I recall of history, the Ostwind was a footnote, not a staple.

funked · « **Reply #3 on:** October 16, 2000, 04:28:00 PM »

AH has left the WB arcade "air only" strat behind. Sure it needs work but no way are we going to regress to endless furballs and air forces capturing territory.

Dingy · « **Reply #4 on:** October 16, 2000, 05:31:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by funked:
AH has left the WB arcade "air only" strat behind. Sure it needs work but no way are we going to regress to endless furballs and air forces capturing territory.

If real war is what we are striving for, we are still WAY short. Historically, it took a coordination of effort between the US Army Air Corps (Air Force) and Infantry to take a strategic target. Air power alone couldnt capture territory and land power alone was very susceptible to entrenched enemy defenses. When these two units worked together (ala blitzkrieg), a whole new era and tactical doctrine was developed.

I like what vehicles can offer both in terms of variety and strategy. The Afrika Corps scenario has a ground component which might be interesting. In so far as the MA, ground units have a number of things making them dweeb rides.

1. Vehicle spawn points are too close to bases requiring a modest 5 minute drive before they are in range. Conversely, planes have to fly 15 minutes or more just to close a VH.

2. Bases dont defend themselves well from ground units. Its very easy for a single Osty to close a base without taking much damage from field ack. Conversely, a single handed jabo attack on a field with full ack is near suicide.

Its my belief (and please post otherwise if you disagree) that if you move spawn points out and enable some sort of field defense you will only increase the historical accuracy of the game. Osties will NOT be able to approach a base with near impunity. This is the major problem right now.

-Ding

funked · « **Reply #5 on:** October 16, 2000, 05:46:00 PM »

I should have been more clear. I'm disagreeing with Stiglr's notion that the ground war should be scrapped. I have no problem with making adjustments to what we have. But I'm not going back to WB-style air-only foolishness.

Hamish · « **Reply #6 on:** October 16, 2000, 05:50:00 PM »

Preach On Brotha Funked!

Hamish!

Sunchaser · « **Reply #7 on:** October 16, 2000, 07:32:00 PM »

Reality dictates that HTC appeal to gamers to survive and CHogs and Ostwinds, although footnotes to WWII, are an evil "sim killing" addition that we must endure if HTC is to continue.

Main arena will always have stuff like this.

"Perk Planes"?
Gotta love the reality of that addition when it comes.

I hate ostwinds....and in this "Tankers Map" spend a lot of time in the damned things.

That's for gaming, when I want reality in the main arena I grab a B17 and get 25K so P38s, P51s and Spitfires can shoot me.

When I really really want reality I go to the Med arena on Scenario nights, grab a B17, get 20K and let Macchis and 109s shoot me.

And for a total, rip yourself back to, reality check I pay the bills Youknowho runs up while I am off looking for reality in AH.

The "simmers" hope is well run scenarios and they will happen.

Many people, NOT including me are, bustin' their butts to make them work.

It is great to be able to squeak about stuff though, ain't it?

Move a vehicle field 5 feet further from the airfields and stand back, the cryin' will break your heart.

Sure wish HTC would finish the B17 artwork but this is not the proper place to squeak about that so I will not, right?

Oh well, guess it is "ostwind" time, cya.

{Oh man,I hate those things, like steppin' into a roomful o roaches!}

------------------
When did they put this thing in here and WTF is it for?

Fatty · « **Reply #8 on:** October 16, 2000, 07:55:00 PM »

Quote

2. Bases dont defend themselves well from ground units. Its very easy for a single Osty to close a base without taking much damage from field ack. Conversely, a single handed jabo attack on a field with full ack is near suicide.

I disagree on the latter Dingy, but I do agree that the former is too easy not to have it chosen much more often.

I think difficulty in taking out bases with air is about where it should be, but the ease of vehicles makes it a secondary option.

I've used ostwinds not only for taking bases, but for taking out panzers as well, and I don't really think that's right.

Fishu · « **Reply #9 on:** October 16, 2000, 11:24:00 PM »

Increase rebuild time to 30 minutes instead of current 15 minutes.

Fury · « **Reply #10 on:** October 17, 2000, 02:37:00 PM »

It seems to me that the number of conversations about vehicles and especially the Ostwind in particular, have increased 100-fold since the new improved beta map was introduced.

Maybe it's just that the new improved beta map does not play well with ground vehicles. Maybe HTC should switch back to the other map instead, rather then mess around with stuff (vehicles) that have been out for a while.

If they need to tweek vehicles because they are currently wrong, that's fine. I just hope they don't tweek if the map is where the problem lies.

Fury

[This message has been edited by Fury (edited 10-17-2000).]

Stiglr · « **Reply #11 on:** October 17, 2000, 06:52:00 PM »

I agree with you funked, that there needs to be a ground war going on.

But having players running it, in vehicles that are not modelled up to snuff with the aircraft modelling, and with "air force" mindsets rather than "armor or army" mindsets is just as dweebish as "all furball all the time".

What needs to happen is a reinvention of the "Arena" concept. Is it AI ground war? I dunno. But there has to be the proper mix between a realistic air war, a realistic ground war, and a playable, enjoyable environment.