Time for a new Furball Arena

[Shane]

You need to take FurbLake for what it is... there was a dam good cartoon depiction of the "grinder" of *any* type of massive furball.. the very same stuff happens at TT or anywhere there are sufficient close by bases... the difference in FurBlake is it's a static, relatively high-density location with no goal other than what you make of it... well discounting the landgrab aspect.

Anything found in the FurBlake, as has been mentioned, can be found in any of the arenas... it's just generally more spread out is all.

The grinder serves many functions, some of which have been touched upon, like SA, learning new plane. It's also a great place to practice 2 or 4 wing tactics.  BnZer's and refine their aim and timing.  TnBers can well.. turn and burn to their hearts content.  So many "pure" fightering opporunities. FurBlake is a blank canvas.

I do see various people trying, but until there are sufficient converted nbrs to shift the paradigm from whatever it is now, to whatever it "should" be...  vox populi rules... get more like-minded poepl. Eventually you'll even see some of the DA Skawdz go thru the inevitable evolution.  There will always be a new crop of newb and noobz coming in.

I swear... anyone, and i mean anyone, who played AW3, FR with the Big Pac map up cannot deny that Furblake *is* the FT as you remember it, dweebishness and all.... AW3 later added it's own "Fighter Town *Arena*" towards the end and it was even better because you had a bunch of fighter jocks with a less dweeb ratio.  FurBlake has a high dweeb ratio because not enough "vets" come in to set them down the right path.

And again, there's nothing in FurBlake that cannot be found in spades in any other arena.  Just give them their stats, sheesh....  not ranking.. nope.

and come help me paint that canvas....


Oh and moot.. those FW wing training... I think FurBlake is a perfect place to do them.  

[Spacy]

Because that's what the DA used to be like. It only seems impossible to you because you havent seen it with your own eyes and would rather deny it for your agenda.

You are right, I haven't seen it with my own eyes.  When I first started flying the furball there was nobody there except a few of our squad from the MA.  I'm sure it used to be different but it is what it is now and it's not likely to change without HT's help.

Even if we didnt.. The DA lake sucks compared to what it used to be. You dont need to be Einstein or a white knight in shining armor to correctly point that out. That's not to say the fights ought to happen a certain way or return to exactly what they were.. Just that they suck, and in good part due to a lot of players who do know better (and here you could argue that regulars like TAAF have certainly been in there long enough for 'vet' status as far as the DA is concerned, and thus ALSO bear at least as much responsibility for what state it's in) but perpetuate the lame habits in there..

Not knowing what it used to be, I don't think the "DA lake" sucks.  I think the MAs suck.  Just why do they suck?  I see the same behavior here as in the MAs, except in the dueling fields.  And, even if the lake was a dueling area before, it is called a furballing area now and that is exactly what it has become. It is no different to fight in a furball in the DA than in a MA.  We've had many old timers come into the Furball area to "teach us" how to behave...the do it by picking, HOing and ganging on TAAFs of others of their choice.  LOL...they behave the very way they condem in others...that'll "teach" us...lol

[moot]

BS. You have no idea what you're talking about. You're full of it. Period. You're no better than the guys who mindlessly trashed the O'Club till it got censored ("Hey, I wasnt here before so it doesnt matter what it used to be like! This is what it's going to be like henceforth 'so just deal with it'!"), and then shrugged, saying 'not my fault'. GFY.


Shane, what the DA used to provide can't be found anywhere else anymore. It's not that we shouldnt have a grind like the lake is now, that's fun in its own right.. I spent about 1 whole night a week in H2H FFA (although even that was better than the mass of clueless and/or green noobs at the lake) anytime there was a spot available from 99 to 04. But it's not worth what the lake used to be. As it is, it's the same as the MA fighter areas (e.g. over TT on OzKansas), with the only difference being the landscape and flight time to the fight. It hasnt provided dogfighting of quality that old lake had. The 'regulars' havent made it happen. All of us who knew the old lake would have it back in good shape if it was left up to us.  I dont think (prove me wrong tho) that you can argue that everything else being equal, groups like TAAF would be a better influence on noobs than all of us who flew the old DA lake. Nor that the sheer number of new players are so easy to herd.

Anyway this isnt about TAAF or any other peanut gallery food fight. It's about what the DA can be improved to right here and right now, e.g. what it used to provide that's worth trying to bring back. I dont see why the worse one of the two should inherit the DA. It has though, so let's make do with what we got.. Get rid of landing messages. Dont enable rank. Keep stats, whatever.
Move this crappy moshpit grind to a separate place or arena when it's possible, so we can have what the DA used to be.  That was better than anything the DA lake gives you 95% of the time anymore.

[Steel]

Moot,
    I dont think you should get rid of kill messages entirely. All to often I fight 2-3 vs me and come out alive. The only little bit of reward I have is landing my plane. Landing 5 or 10 kills in a 51B while turn fighting spitfires is quite cool. Call me superficial or whatever but that landing message means something to me. Granted there are way to go about and ways to be avoided. Some will do anything for two kills and quick "Atta boy" in a F-4U1C. To me landing with 2 kills in a plane with enough ammo to down 30-40 planes is laughable. Maybe up the limit to a higher number so its harder to get there by dweeb behavior. Landing 10-12 kills in 1 sortie while maintaining your flying style is highly rewarding. Plus landing kills in oddball planes shows people that you can do it without uber rides.

Steel

[Spacy]

BS. You have no idea what you're talking about. You're full of it. Period. You're no better than the guys who mindlessly trashed the O'Club till it got censored ("Hey, I wasnt here before so it doesnt matter what it used to be like! This is what it's going to be like henceforth 'so just deal with it'!"), and then shrugged, saying 'not my fault'. GFY.

Flamer...someone always has to start name calling...too bad.  But, anyway, someone tell me how it used to be at the lake.  Reference is made to how it used to be...so...how was it?

[moot]

Moot,
    I dont think you should get rid of kill messages entirely. All to often I fight 2-3 vs me and come out alive. The only little bit of reward I have is landing my plane. Landing 5 or 10 kills in a 51B while turn fighting spitfires is quite cool. Call me superficial or whatever but that landing message means something to me. Granted there are way to go about and ways to be avoided. Some will do anything for two kills and quick "Atta boy" in a F-4U1C. To me landing with 2 kills in a plane with enough ammo to down 30-40 planes is laughable. Maybe up the limit to a higher number so its harder to get there by dweeb behavior. Landing 10-12 kills in 1 sortie while maintaining your flying style is highly rewarding. Plus landing kills in oddball planes shows people that you can do it without uber rides.

Steel

Well, I empathize, but I just dont see it as valuable enough. I dont really care if anyone recognizes that Im so good that I landed x-kills.. The only time I get a kick out of it is when I kill a string of gangers and get to put my name in lights on top of killing em.. It's as good as teabagging in FPS'   Other than that, I think the fight is all the reward there ought to be The game isnt a popularity pageant simulator.. It is about air combat.  

Landing 10-12 kills in 1 sortie while maintaining your flying style is highly rewarding. Plus landing kills in oddball planes shows people that you can do it without uber rides.

But how do you set it up so that indeed proper flying style is rewarded? Raisin the limit may be counter-productive.. It could just encourage even more timid flying to match the new requirements.  Oddball planes is a good idea.. How about making the landing message threshold inversely proportional to ENY?


Spacy - Bite me. There's all the description you need already right here in this thread.

[Tr1gg22]

Ok the simple point is that folks in the MA think that they are more skilled Most people in the MA can not even tie there own shoes in a 1 on 1    There are the vets that can but most have no clue what to do when they have someone on there 6...I bet in the whole MA that there are only 15 sticks that can beat me 1 on 1.... If that!! ///// chest thump!! !! Start the list boys I am an old MA stick of only 3 years, but I will tell u pound for pound DA has better sticks 1 on 1  Most u MA clowns do not no nothing but a high alt pick..Like I said I am a MA clown myself but most you chumps in there are high alt picking dweebs..No skill punks with the attitude ur better because u play in the ultimate furball Start the list lets do it ready for all challengers SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!!!  I am taking orders    PUNKS 

[hlbly]

There were once rules, in fact the MOTD used to come up when you logged explainging the rules.  There may not be any "decent fights" in any arena but as others have said, there was a time when you had to ask to engage.

I wouldn't mind a furball arena at all, but your perception of the DA is wrong, there was a time when people met at the centre of the furball lake and 1v1's occured.

I would love to see that . The unwillingness of some people to let 1v1's happen at the lake is the only real downer to the DA . No one butting into a fight unasked at cherry picker lake would be AWESONE . I wish I would have been here to see that .

[Steel]

DA'ers,
    I think if you find the right people the DA is still a great place to fly. Last night Shane, Trigg, Seraider, myself and perhaps a few others after I left had some awesome fights. Shane started flying on a set of fields and made a general call for 1v1s. A few people joined in and Shane started to kill us all (darn you lol). There wasnt one complaint about hoing or cheap shots. Thru the whole thing not one chest thumping incident either. This morning I flew about 6-7 fights with Yanksfan and had a ball. A few true duels with some 51B-109K matchups thrown in. I held fire on some frontal shots and he did the same I felt. He treated me with respect and fought very sportsman like. I think if you go in there and look for people like this you will be amazed. Like life the DA is what you make it and a matter of perspective.

Look me up and I will be glad to die with style and grace.   

Steel 

[hlbly]

Would making a map with a 1v1 lake the same one we call furball lake . Make a new cherry picker lake maybe a bit bigger work ? Couldn't be that hard to setup . I would see my soul for a 1v1 lake , to go with cherry picker (furball) lake . Seems like it would work to me .

[Steel]

    The whole DA (other than furball lake) is a 1v1 area with a variety of options! So much of that goes to waste all to often. Personally I love the high alt fights above twenty thousand feet. It should be used more often if possible. The area for 1v1 is there....just not the pilots sometimes.

Steel

[Shane]

Would making a map with a 1v1 lake the same one we call furball lake . Make a new cherry picker lake maybe a bit bigger work ? Couldn't be that hard to setup . I would see my soul for a 1v1 lake , to go with cherry picker (furball) lake . Seems like it would work to me .

But you already have plenty of 1 v 1 areas... nothing stops people from going there and doing those "let them be" kind of fights.. pretty much like we did about 2 weeks ago, when there were about 8 of us using  15/16?? and leaving each other's 1 v 1's alone.

The current overall arena could use a few minor tweaks (for example, re-naming the Paired Dueling bases, "deck" (2k), low alt (6k), med alt (15k), and adding a high alt (25k).  Also lowering the deck to the.. well.. deck....  right now a 6k base has I think a 4k deck, giving you only 2k of downward manuevering room.

As for FurBlake, it's also fine, just move the bases 2-3 miles further back to the 2nd tier of terrace. This would free up a lot of space without having to (re)design a new arena.

I do remember the tower outs with killshooter off era...  meh... you had your dweebs then, too. Plenty would drop right down and cherry w/o a "check 6" first.

I really dunno why FurBlake is so looked down upon - i think more than anything it's due to the "H2H crowd" taking it over and molding it in their own image (which isn't too far off from any other groups').  My counter-point is they're paying customers now, not freeloaders, and as such are entitled to play the game however they want, just like the rest of us.  

Don't like it?  Come help mold FurBlake into *your* idealized version.  Show those former freeloaders how it's supposed to be done.

What's not to like?  Plenty of targets a short hop away, no base damage/porking, perma-dar, few if any buffs that can simply be ignored, no 262's, free perk rides (if you want), fuel burn 1.0 so yuo can take 25% and feel you're all that. (now that I think about it, Fuel burn 2.0 might be better), but most of all, it's a massive furball that can put some base horde vs few defender MA actions to shame.

Oh.. did I forget to mention... GV's are disabled in FurBlake?

So... if your bored with the hamstard wheel of MA land grab, come join in the Grinder that is FurBlake.

<Maybe if ranking scores *were* added, you see even more MA weenies coming in?> I'm still opposed to rankings, tho' ... stats... sure.

 

[kotrenin]

By design the lake is 3 sided and actually keeps the fights pretty even, hoarding is often offset by 2 sides intentionally/ unintentionally combining.  There is no base capture or bombing or NOE runs, just dogfighting.  The close proximity of the bases is actually close to average of the MA's keeping a near continual flow of fresh fighters coming and also making it easy to find and get to the fight.  I just wish people would stop having the the expectation that the dueling honor code be applied to Furball Lake.  Furball lake is not designed for it, (yes, you can go to the outer ring looking for a 1v1) the center cross is not the place to be asking for permissions or expecting leniency from enemies.  There is always a third party to worry about and if your dance partner and you are both wearing red the third guy will tap you on the shoulder with his guns.

As far as the score is concerned keep it but have it refresh every month and make it accessible on the scores page. 

[Spacy]

By design the lake is 3 sided and actually keeps the fights pretty even, hoarding is often offset by 2 sides intentionally/ unintentionally combining.  There is no base capture or bombing or NOE runs, just dogfighting.  The close proximity of the bases is actually close to average of the MA's keeping a near continual flow of fresh fighters coming and also making it easy to find and get to the fight.  I just wish people would stop having the the expectation that the dueling honor code be applied to Furball Lake.  Furball lake is not designed for it, (yes, you can go to the outer ring looking for a 1v1) the center cross is not the place to be asking for permissions or expecting leniency from enemies.  There is always a third party to worry about and if your dance partner and you are both wearing red the third guy will tap you on the shoulder with his guns.

As far as the score is concerned keep it but have it refresh every month and make it accessible on the scores page. 

Thanks...and AMEN...exactly as I feel about it.  You see the reality of the furball area.  I only ask for resetting of stats monthly and disassociating the Furball area from the Dueling area because the two are not the same in reality.

[Bronk]

No score, stats only and drop base alts at the lake to 1.5k.

Ohh and nothing on the home page.