Learning the 109 Series, have questions

[FLOTSOM]

do a search for agent360's 109 threads. They helped me alot..... I mean they help me alot.

here is agents training films thread

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,235050.0.html

and the thread about aiming the 30mm by agent

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,238513.0.html

and a more in depth conversation about odd angle shooting solutions

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,249256.15.html

now Dave it's bad enough that you correct my grammar! but if you use this information to shoot me down as well.......weell den ima goonna learn may sum propah engrish an gives ta u such a nastah ash chewen heah on da bords!

<SALUTE> and happy hunting

FLOTSOM

[Babalonian]

If you like 109 nimbleness Dave, try a G2 w/o gondollas or any ord/DT.  The F is still a beter turner, and maybe a little beter at accelerating out of a turn, but the G2 imo is a F on steroids (it doesn't turn as good, but still accelerates well out fo a turn, and more importantly to me in the LWA, it has a faster top speed).  I have had some fun sorties in a F though, scrambling from an airfield under attack by a huge horde of enemy turn-n-burners and taking down 3-5 before getting picked (or having to land for ammo).

Regarding the cannon packages, you're probabley just naturaly picking up that the 20mm Mg151 has the best ballistics, rate of fire, and quantity of ammo for 109 cannons.

Copypasta ala Babalon from the other 109 thread:
"On the G2 and earlier, my cowls are around 175-125, and my  20mm cannon to 225-200.  On the later models, my cowls are around 200 give or take and my cannons around 300-250. 

The cowls are already mounted pretty close together on the nose and have great ballistics, and especially with the earlier smaller caliber cowl guns, they really only do damage at closer ranges and in a nice tight grouping.  If you're shooting your cowls into a wing for more than 3 solid seconds at 200-400 yards, then start messing with your convergences, because I can vouch that the cowl guns are lethal when properly converged and used at the proper ranges in bursts.

The cannons are a totally different bird for the 109s than the cowls, other than they are placed close to the cowls on the nose.  109s feature either the 20mm MG/FF (with only 60 rounds and horrible ballistics and rate of fire ), the 20mm Mg151 (plenty of ammo with 150 or 200 rounds, best ballistics of any German 109 cannons IMO and the fastest rate of fire  ), or the much feared 30mm Mk108 (only 65 rounds and a slow rate of fire, and ballisticaly it's better than a 20mm MG/FF IMO, but still pretty bad).  Each handles differently, and really the best practice/feel you can get for the first time is to go in offline mode and unload them each a couple times into some drones without any cowl guns."

[Bosco123]

I talked with Grizz on what convergence I should set, and here is were I place my package for all planes. 375 for the cannons and 450 for the MGs. Here's why, you are not usually going to shoot 600 or more. There going to be rather close, within 400 to 200. the best shot is a stright shot that takes no lead at all. That's why it's set that way. I take no lead on shots 200 to 400, which just makes it point and click.
If you don't believe me, look at Grizz's K/D ratio from last tour, it's about 14+ K/D. Mines not as good, but I know it works. But like they say, one could work for one, but not the other.

[Scotch]

While Grizz is a nice guy and a decent fighter, that k/d is not very representative of anything valuable.

Convergence is as much about personal preference as it is anything else. If I was to set my 50cals to 450yards for example, I'd be hampering myself. I like to get in close and my bullets would end up going around the target! I set 50cals to 300yards. That way they're still hitting when I get in close, but they've also got enough range to clear my wingman for example.

My cowl mg's in the 09 I have at 300. 09s 20mm also at 300. Tater at 200. However because they are nose mounted, even if they're set at 300 yards I will take the occasional shot on a runner at 800. Mostly just to get them to turn...where I need the ability to take lead shots....It's not always feasible to unload my g's in a fight.

I'll also take the occasional tater shot farther out, but it's usually luck if I hit outside of 400. Despite what some people are claiming on the boards, I've yet to see anyone consistently land long distance tater shots on a moving target. There's too much variation in the rounds trajectory...

convergence is a dead horse though... lots of threads all with the same info.

[Bosco123]

Like I said, it may work for some, but not for others. <S>

[Yenny]

Like I said, it may work for some, but not for others. <S>

yargh k/d just mean do u bnz more or tnb more.

[Messiah]

There is nothing more satisfying than killing something with a tater. K4 is the best all around of the 109's.

[killnu]

If you fly a G14 over the K4...and you dont take the 30mm...you are just limiting yourself.  It only takes one mistake on your enemys part and it is over, with the 30mm.

Dont be afraid to get them slow, use vertical maneuvers that the K4 can pull off due to its power, that other planes cant...pop some flaps out, push the plane.

[Tom5572]

There are a lot of great posts about 109s here.  For me I have two that I fly more than any of the others.  I am decent enough in both of them.  The 109F4 is probably one of the funnest and most rewarding planes IMHO.  It is great taking down the dreaded spit 16 with an out dated plane fighting the spits fight.  I have to agree the K4 is the best of the lot.  It has so many options.  It can get you into the fight fast, has the power to kill with short snap shots, it can climb long after others fall away, and if you need it, the acceleration and speed to get you out of trouble. 
     www.aceshighmovies.com  has a couple downloads available narrated by Agent360.  I just watched the films tonight and found out just how much I do not know about this beast of an airplane. 
     From a reformed spit driver who now sees the light of the 109s, I cannot believe I ever thought the 109 an easy target. 

[thrila]

If you fly a G14 over the K4...and you dont take the 30mm...you are just limiting yourself.  It only takes one mistake on your enemys part and it is over, with the 30mm.

I fly with the 20mm solely because i get annoyed being d400 behind someone and not being able to hit with the 30mm.  I wouldn't say it limits me to an extent where it's a disadvantage, for me i see it as a trade off because i with the 20mm i have a longer range.  Though there are certainly times that i knew if i had 30mm that con would be dead instead of flying off with no visible damage.  With my flying style perhaps i would be better off with the 30mm but i really do get frustrated being d400 behind someone and not being able to hit them.

I've been through my archive of films and kept around a dozen of 109 flights with the 20mm that were interesting/fun.  i'll post them up some time so you can all laugh at my flying style and my over zealous throttle control.

[killnu]

I agree with you on that thrila...I hate straight 6 shots with the 30mm.  My flying style usually does not put me in that position though.  I find if you make yourself a target(lower than the other guy) and force overshoots, you get a lot of snapshot oppourtunities and that is where I love the 30mm.

[Babalonian]

I love the G-14's 20mm, great balistics and rate of fire, plenty of ammo too.  It will also get the job done with a good shot into another fighter.  The only times I curse having the 20mm instead of the 30mm is when I stumble upon a formation or two of buffs.  The 30mm is just awesome for zooming in and out fast enough to not take any damage on buffs while inflicting some serious damage without gondies (though gondies are great for buff hunting too).

[thrila]

Yeah, i hate it sometimes when i see a load of buffs knowing there's little i can do about it with a sole 20mm

Here's an example that i wish i had a 30mm, i made a p47 overshoot several times but didn't even damage him. http://www.4shared.com/file/76206792/6acf8c61/109vp47yakt.html

I've been through my films and thrown 10 or so into a zip file, you can check out my flying style and see the merits and demerits of having the 20mm i.e easy tracking shots up 400, overshoots that would have been kills had i taken the 30mm or hitting a con with a fair few hits but seeing no damage.  I kill fairly frequently in overshoots, it feels like it depends on if i'm lucky that day or not.

I'm about halfway through looking through my films i'll probably throw some more in at same stage.  MOst of these are between 6 months- 1 year old, i haven't flown very frequently for several tours.

http://www.4shared.com/file/76148072/62c81437/AH109films.html

[Nilsen]

I have WAY more "luck" in the G14 with tater compared to the K4.. go figure. Maybe i just put too much faith in the K4 power when im in it, or maybe there is something else. All my settings in the g14 and k4 are the same.

[thrila]

109 link wasn't working for some reason and i cant edit my post.

Hopefully this'll work- http://www.4shared.com/file/76527298/53a8a329/_3__AH109films.html