F6F vs P39Q in Turning

[WarTooth]

Guys,

Which plane turns better below 5k F6F or P39Q?

Thanks,

WT

[trotter]

F6F.

At higher speeds the instantaneous turn rates may be comparable, but once the needle drops below 225 the F6F will turn circles inside of a P-39. Use flaps.

[Spikes]

F6F for sure. If it was a P39D with a 20mm it might be a little more comparable...

[1pLUs44]

Flat turn... F6F any day. Actual ACM, depends who the better pilot is

[WarTooth]

What does ACM stand for?

Air Combat Maneuvering???

[humble]

Yes,

At low alt the P-39Q is faster (with WEP) and has an advantage in sustained climb. The F6F actually performs better in the vertical however (IMO). So for the P-39 to prevail it needs to keep the fight in the verticals but not in a pure vertical "looping" fight. since the P-39's advantage declines as alt increases the P-39 also has to try and keep the fight from working upward. IMO this is a fight that greatly favors the F6F unless the 39 driver is very good since the F6F is wonderful in nose low reverses and remarkably hard to hit during such. Basically if the 39 doesnt chase the F6F down it suffers a real risk of being zoomed on the "pop up"...if it does then it has a 1 or nothing shot since it cant counter or escape the F6F's reverse IMO. The P-39D is a much more formidable plane IMO then the Q here....

[BaDkaRmA158Th]

"The P-39D is a much more formidable plane IMO then the Q here...."

How?
less horse power, more wing gun weight, no wep.



I am just woundering, as our D model is a D-1 and is closer to a p-400 in power and such than a D-2.

Remember also with 39's being tail/mid body heavy, its a real easy plane to keep the nose up on, the fact the flaps do not come out till around 195mph, and the stall speed is useualy around 120 "90-95 with full flaps out" if pulling hard on the stick, it doesnt give you much room to turn with, and after +2 flaps out, they are more like airbrakes.

I prefer to only do 1 turn with a fighter max, after that you wount have the speed options to keep on fighting, try to do knife attacks, get in.. hit hard, get out.

Page up also works wounders for getting that realy good deflection shot, get some hits, keep on movin'.

She aint easy, but fun.

[humble]

The D is a formidable dog fighter with the ability to force an angles fight on the F6F. Obviously relative pilot skill is always a factor but the D offers a significant advantage in one aspect of the fight while the Q is close to double inferior.

[Oldman731]

Obviously relative pilot skill is always a factor but the D offers a significant advantage in one aspect of the fight while the Q is close to double inferior.

Geez.  I like the Q.

- oldman

[Widewing]

The D is a formidable dog fighter with the ability to force an angles fight on the F6F. Obviously relative pilot skill is always a factor but the D offers a significant advantage in one aspect of the fight while the Q is close to double inferior.

I like the D model, but its lack of horsepower undoes it quickly. Combined with generally ineffective flaps, it runs out of energy rapidly. Forcing a turning fight with an F6F will likely be unproductive if the P-39D can't get guns on quickly. After about two turns, the P-38D will be at an energy deficit.

In contrast, the Q model will beat up the D rather easily. It need simply take the fight vertical and bleed down the D. Don't take the extra wing guns, fly with the 37mm and cowl guns only. This translates into similar weights (P-39Q should be about 100 lb lighter) with the Q's power advantage being considerable.

In relation to the F6F-5, the P-39Q accelerates faster and climbs a bit better from sea level (it's also faster up through 15k). Keep in mind that the P-39Q is as fast or faster than a P-38J at 14k. Its best performance band is between 10k and 15k. Turn radius clean is about the same, but the F6F gains with flap use. The edge goes to the F6F-5, but the P-39Q can acquit itself very well.

Overall, the P-39Q is a very good mid-war fighter and competitive in the late-war arenas if flown where it performs best.

My regards,

Widewing

[humble]

WW when I look at the charts it seems like the F6F has the edge on performance at sea level. Wiki shows a top MIL speed of 300 and WEP speed of just under 325 compared to the F6F's ~320/330. The F6F has a +3,000 MIL climb vs the P-39's 2,700...

It shows max speed with WEP of roughly 350 at 6k with a mil speed of just over 325 compared to the F6F's 328or so at MIL and 335? with WEP. The F6F has climb rate adv or parity thru 5k under WEP. I know when I fly the Q I feel like its overall handling is far inferior to the D. My curiosity is in performance under load, I've always felt the F6F is very sweet bird to fly offering a lot of stability thru the flight envelope. To me the Q requires a lot more work...while an above average pilot can use these characteristics as an advantage I'm curious how much E bleed the average pilot suffers. From everything I've read the Q should be a good matchup for the 109F yet in my own limited experience the F is a much more formidable matchup for the F6F and handily superior to the Q. Obviously as always pilot quality is a significant variable....

[Oldman731]

From everything I've read the Q should be a good matchup for the 109F yet in my own limited experience the F is a much more formidable matchup for the F6F and handily superior to the Q.

Agreed.

But then, the 109F is a match for most other aircraft.

- oldman

[Widewing]

WW when I look at the charts it seems like the F6F has the edge on performance at sea level. Wiki shows a top MIL speed of 300 and WEP speed of just under 325 compared to the F6F's ~320/330. The F6F has a +3,000 MIL climb vs the P-39's 2,700...

It shows max speed with WEP of roughly 350 at 6k with a mil speed of just over 325 compared to the F6F's 328or so at MIL and 335? with WEP. The F6F has climb rate adv or parity thru 5k under WEP. I know when I fly the Q I feel like its overall handling is far inferior to the D. My curiosity is in performance under load, I've always felt the F6F is very sweet bird to fly offering a lot of stability thru the flight envelope. To me the Q requires a lot more work...while an above average pilot can use these characteristics as an advantage I'm curious how much E bleed the average pilot suffers. From everything I've read the Q should be a good matchup for the 109F yet in my own limited experience the F is a much more formidable matchup for the F6F and handily superior to the Q. Obviously as always pilot quality is a significant variable....

Game charts for the P-39Q include the weight and drag of the gondolas. I don't use them... Don't want or need them.

Let's look at performance with both aircraft having 50% fuel.

I'll start with sea level speed.
P-39Q: 330 mph w/WEP, 308 mph MIL
F6F-5: 330 mph w/WEP, 320 mph MIL

Speed at 5k.
P-39Q: 353 mph w/WEP, 330 mph MIL
F6F-5: 338 mph w/WEP, 328 mph MIL

Speed at 10k.
P-39Q: 375 mph w/WEP, 353 mph MIL
F6F-5: 355 mph w/WEP, 342 mph MIL

Acceleration from 150 mph to 250 mph, sea level.
P-39Q: 26.46 seconds
F6F-5: 26.57 seconds

Acceleration from 150 mph to 250 mph, 5k.
P-39Q: 24.77 seconds
F6F-5: 26.93 seconds

Climb from sea level to 10k, beginning at 160 mph TAS (time in minutes:seconds.hundreths of seconds).
P-39Q: 2:46.42
F6F-5: 2:47.55


My regards,

Widewing

[Squire]

Without the gondolas the P-39Q is in every way a better performer than the P-39D, in terms of speed, climb, power to weight ratio, acceleration, sustained turn. Its lighter, and has more HP, with the exact same wing area. The P-39D has the 20mm option, that's it.