Author Topic: Roofing leak troubleshooting  (Read 434 times)

Offline Wolfala

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Roofing leak troubleshooting
« on: January 30, 2009, 03:46:22 PM »
I'm appealing to the construction part of the OC. my brother is working on a project over at the trinity school in NYC. They have a 40 year old roof that was in questionable condition before we got our hands on it. The gist of it is this, we were told to install some new equipment in a specific section. The roof was leaking before in certain spots - but now its leaking like a mother diddlyer. I mean, Niagara falls.

Its a flat area about 300 sq feet in area with a very slight pitch. Is there a reliable way, besides damming off areas with sandbags, filling it with water and throwing a dye solution down to find the areas of penetration?

Wolf


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Offline SFRT - Frenchy

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Re: Roofing leak troubleshooting
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2009, 04:15:35 PM »
What type of roof is it? Is it BUR like capsheet/hot tar, is it SPF (spray foam), is it leoneom, is it coregated metal? Is it covered with gravel? Can u have access on the under side of the roof? Where is the water fall, is it somewhere near a vent? Is it along the wall? Pictures might help.

At any rate, go to home depot, they have those blue cans of Henry 208 , that is like black paste we call it plastic cement. Make sure u get the one that can be applied on wet if roof is wet. Apply this thing with a trowell all around pipes, vents, at the base of what u installed. To make it stronger, u usually install a fin plastic mesh inside your patch, like when u seem your drywalls.

If else fail, call me and/or send pictures.
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Offline Babalonian

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Re: Roofing leak troubleshooting
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2009, 05:34:52 PM »
Sounds like they may be blaming you for their leaky roof when all they hired you for was puting some stuff on their horribley degraded roof (unless the specific work you did is leaking... doesnt matter about the leak 1' next to it, if its not a direct result of the work you did, its not your problem to fix... for free).

Make sure whatever you installed isn't causing a depression on the roof now (it sounds pretty flat).  Old roof + new additions are always a nightmare.  If it is causing a depression where you were exactly told to put it, you can argue they didn't do any structural calculations (or they could of been wrong) to see if the roof could "properly" support it (and not dip/make-a-depression where water is pooling on the roof).  Just make whatever holes you guys did due to your contract water tight.  Anything else you're either doing for free or should charge them.  As long as the holes you made are water tight (pooling on the roof around the new equipment or not) you guys should be in the clear.

If there is a depression due to the new equipment, then there will have to be structural work to fix it/reinforce it (so the roof can properly support the new equipment you guys installed that the owner/client specificaly designated in the spot they specificaly designated it).  Unless you guys are responcible in some way for ensuring the roof could properly support this stuff from the get-go and where you put it, then you should be charging for this work.

See what your brother agreed to with this job.  Unless somewhere it says you're responcible for leaving the roof in better shape than when you came, and that you were supposed to do more than put the equipment on the roof where they told you to put it (and ensure that specific work is all water tight), then you guys should be charging for additional services.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2009, 05:36:32 PM by Babalonian »
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Offline Marauding Conan

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Re: Roofing leak troubleshooting
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2009, 06:39:27 PM »
I'm appealing to the construction part of the OC. my brother is working on a project over at the trinity school in NYC. They have a 40 year old roof that was in questionable condition before we got our hands on it. The gist of it is this, we were told to install some new equipment in a specific section. The roof was leaking before in certain spots - but now its leaking like a mother twittleer. I mean, Niagara falls.

Its a flat area about 300 sq feet in area with a very slight pitch. Is there a reliable way, besides damming off areas with sandbags, filling it with water and throwing a dye solution down to find the areas of penetration?

Wolf


What type of roof?

Offline 007Rusty

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Re: Roofing leak troubleshooting
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2009, 06:56:00 PM »
40 year old roof dam ,, what kind??? .. needs a new roof ,I have 25 + years roofing exp. Sounds like this thing was a mess..  After you gents did your work the water just found another place to go.  Just walking on a roof 40 + years old you can make leaks
« Last Edit: January 30, 2009, 07:00:20 PM by 007Rusty »
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Roofing leak troubleshooting
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2009, 07:33:48 PM »
Flat roofs will leak 99.999% of the time.

40 year old flat roofs will leak 110% of the time

In 30 years + of working in,on, or around construction sites,buildings.
And in 47 years of being around buildings.(that encompasses my entire life)
I have never, not once seen a building with a flat roof that didnt leak within the first 6 months of being installed.

Flat roofs leak. Period.
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Offline Thruster

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Re: Roofing leak troubleshooting
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2009, 06:00:35 AM »
"I have never, not once seen a building with a flat roof that didnt leak within the first 6 months of being installed."

You've obviously never seen one of mine.

A public building 40+ years old will probably have a built up membrane. The age of the building would help indicate. Doubtful the last (top) layer is 40 years old. This is where a picture or at least a detailed description makes all the difference.

Define "slight" pitch. Is there gravel? Parapet walls? What else is up there? Where are the leaks manifesting below? What material was used for the deck? What was installed? How soon did the new leaking start? Snow or rain?

Just going by your description there may be a problem regarding the extra work. The site was apparently accepted by your brother. If push comes to shove and the contract doesn't allow for incidental work, he may be on the hook.

The problem could be anything from a poorly flashed penetration to a plugged pitch pan. More info would help.


Offline Elfie

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Re: Roofing leak troubleshooting
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2009, 08:17:45 AM »
Flat roofs will leak 99.999% of the time.

40 year old flat roofs will leak 110% of the time

In 30 years + of working in,on, or around construction sites,buildings.
And in 47 years of being around buildings.(that encompasses my entire life)
I have never, not once seen a building with a flat roof that didnt leak within the first 6 months of being installed.

Flat roofs leak. Period.

I guess you haven't been to the schools my daughters go to, those roofs don't leak. Neither have you been in one of my uncles homes that has a flat roof that doesn't leak either. What about all those strip malls with flat roofs that don't leak?
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Offline Ghosth

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Re: Roofing leak troubleshooting
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2009, 08:36:52 AM »
If built correctly, there are nearly flat roofs that do not leak. School roof that was built back in 69 where I grew up is a good example. But it doesn't "look" perfectly flat, there are ridges and valleys to direct runoff. The problem inevitably starts when you have a spot that has standing water. Over time, with freeze and thaw cycles that standing water will eventually work a hole. So look for any spot that shows up different on the roof. Moss, calcium buildup from evaporating water, missing gravel, etc.


Offline Marauding Conan

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Re: Roofing leak troubleshooting
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2009, 09:45:09 AM »
Flat roofs will leak 99.999% of the time.

40 year old flat roofs will leak 110% of the time

In 30 years + of working in,on, or around construction sites,buildings.
And in 47 years of being around buildings.(that encompasses my entire life)
I have never, not once seen a building with a flat roof that didnt leak within the first 6 months of being installed.

Flat roofs leak. Period.

This is a statement that is too broad. In your 40 years, there has been incredible progress in flat roofing technology. While it might be true that substandard construction will present problems for flat roofs, properly trained and controled crews can achieve addecuate roofs.

Offline ramzey

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Re: Roofing leak troubleshooting
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2009, 10:58:46 AM »
"Using a garden hose and a sprinkler will also help you. Always start from the lowest possible leak location and work upwards. NEVER point the hose up-roof! Try to simulate rain from above. Don't use an unrealistic flow of water. It may take upwards of five to 10 minutes for a leak to expose itself, so be patient"
http://www.askthebuilder.com/B188_Roofing_-_Locating_a_Leak.shtml

Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Roofing leak troubleshooting
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2009, 12:45:22 PM »
Trust me. They leak. or will.
They are either leaking in an area you dont normally look at or just haven't made themselves obvious yet.
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Roofing leak troubleshooting
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2009, 12:58:37 PM »
If built correctly, there are nearly flat roofs that do not leak. School roof that was built back in 69 where I grew up is a good example. But it doesn't "look" perfectly flat, there are ridges and valleys to direct runoff. The problem inevitably starts when you have a spot that has standing water. Over time, with freeze and thaw cycles that standing water will eventually work a hole. So look for any spot that shows up different on the roof. Moss, calcium buildup from evaporating water, missing gravel, etc.



Now here is the exception. Most of them do not have what you discribe.
And often leaks can go undetected for years before they actually make their way to something noticeable.
Runoff isnt the only problem though. Often flat roofs are made using a rubber membrane which is susceptible to damage form all sorts of things including workers being up there.
And its amazing the things that can end up on roofs that can cause damage. Many years ago I worked for a company that used to do all sorts of things on tall buildings from waterproofing to tuck pointing,painting, Steeplejack work, roof repair. etc.
In any event one building we were working on was the  Perth Amboy Bank. On that roof we found an entire tree branch. how it got up there or how long it was there is anyones guess. But sure enough it was there.

funny thing about leaks.
Just because the leak is showing up in one spot on the inside. doesnt mean thats where its leaking from on the outside.
Had a customer last year whom I had to replace a ceiling for who had a leak comming through the ceiling on one end of the house.
and the leak on the roof was clear across on the other end of the house.
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Offline Thruster

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Re: Roofing leak troubleshooting
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2009, 05:04:22 PM »
Not sure what Ghosth is describing except maybe corrugated metal and that's pretty rare for a flat on an older school. Or any flat roof for that matter save a shed.

A well built roof won't leak during its anticipated service life. The operative term is well built.

Maybe more details will help.

Or just do what Frenchy said. D&M everything.

Offline ROC

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Re: Roofing leak troubleshooting
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2009, 11:19:19 AM »
Never heard of an equipment replacement contract that didn't have a disclaimer regarding roof conditions and resulting damage.  Equipment goes up, roofer comes behind and repairs the damage, should have been part of the scope of work to begin with.  That is, when you say equipment I'm thinking hvac or something substantial.  If it's a Dish Network antenna, well then he needs to fix his holes :)
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