P-38's Mossie and 110's

[Bronk]

I have not been killed by auto-puffy ack in a bomber since around 2000 or 2001. Not counting manned 5".

On the other hand I've had a 262 at over 25k doing 500mph get popped on the second hit over a barracks strat or some such thing in the MA. Just one of many many countless personal observations.

It just doesn't work the way HT says it does. He needs to recode it from scratch as to how it determines what is hit and when.

hyperbole....
What is your buff to fighter ratio? What is more likely to take crippling damage from puffy?

[Bronk]

Besides, my concern isn't with the number of hits, but rather the effect of the hits.

See my above reply to krusty. Whats a offers a bit more protection? Small fighter or large multi engined buff?

[Karnak]

The large buff, which the Mosquito is compared to a Spitfire, yet it seems to take "critical" hits to the cockpit far, far more often.

That is my point as well.  Thank you for supporting me.

[Bronk]

The large buff, which the Mosquito is compared to a Spitfire, yet it seems to take "critical" hits to the cockpit far, far more often.

That is my point as well.  Thank you for supporting me.

Underlined for the hyperbole impaired.

[Karnak]

Underlined for the hyperbole impaired.

Your point?  That none of us have done a careful study to determine rates of pilot wounds?

You're being silly.  Many of us used these things enough to notice that twins have a much higher pilot wound rate.

[moot]

IMO the pilot hits and aircraft size:AAA hits ratio are two separate things. I sort of agree that the pilot hits seem to happen more often than not, but I dont agree at all that there's anything special happening with 38s and mossies catching flack, compared to other planes. I can dodge ack with 38s and 47s and mossies just as well as any other fighters. There's maybe just a bit of extra flack caught, but it doesnt seem disproportionate to the difference in target area that these larger planes do have over the rest.

So the simplest explanation could be that pilot wounds in mossies & co are from part of the damage code where ack splash damage propagates more easily to the mossie pilot. Effectively; I don't know any more than Trigger2 or Krusty what the code is like and whether it needs to be rewritten from scratch or just has a single digit typo somewhere in it.

And it's not exceedingly difficult to test ack magnetism, if there is one. Fly a same trajectory thru ack with all planes concerned and a couple of controls.. Repeat for enough sample size. If the effect is down in the error range's noise, it's probably nothing worth complaining about.. And you'd also have to account for plane shape, on top of plane size. Because ack dispersion probably isnt homogeneous around the target's anticipated position (where the gun aims, the lead) - so a plane with a large area (e.g. the 38 when it's facing the ack - something anyone with common sense doesnt do when dodging ack) but less of it in the middle (the 38 has that gap between cockpit and elevators and nacelles), you could have a relatively minor gain in hits despite the much larger area (compared to e.g. a yak).

And you guys arguing that the ack code is somehow wrong... Where is your evidence (on top of hard evidence for 38s & co being odd) that the ack hit detection is anything different from the code that handles air to air hit detection? My guess would be that, keeping code simple, AAA auto is the same thing as what's in players' hands, except aimed by AI.

[trigger2]

And you guys arguing that the ack code is somehow wrong... Where is your evidence (on top of hard evidence for 38s & co being odd) that the ack hit detection is anything different from the code that handles air to air hit detection? My guess would be that, keeping code simple, AAA auto is the same thing as what's in players' hands, except aimed by AI.

I'll try and get the video up when I get home, flyin, if I remember right, p47's at alt, one burst of flak, and eagle flight lead goes down, and Eagle2 needs a new paint job...

[B4Buster]

You're being silly.  Many of us used these things enough to notice that twins have a much higher pilot wound rate.

I agree 100%, why I don't go near puffy or field ack if at all possible. I even stray away from buffs sometime

[moot]

Let's make sure there's no misunderstanding between puffy and regular ack.

[E25280]

First, in reference to what some people are calling a "hit bubble", HiTech has said on several occasions that the hit bubble is the shape of the aircraft, period.

Second, with regard to multi-engine fighters being more prone to pilot wounds, I think several of you are not taking into account the configuration of the aircraft. 

Consider a P-38 diving on a base vs. a P-51.  The P-51 pilot has a large engine block in front of him.  Hits by small-caliber rounds impacting the front or underside of the front of the aircraft hit this engine block, possibly doing no appreciable damage to it, and certainly do not reach the pilot.  In the P-38, no engine block to shield the pilot.  Small caliber rounds are therefore more likely to pierce the thin skin of the aircraft and impact the pilot's compartment.

Now consider those same planes after the dive and on pull-out.  Fire coming from behind the P-51 pilot has the rudder, elevators, vertical and horizontal stabilizers, and a good portion of fuselage that is in the way, and can all be hit / damaged before reaching the pilot.  The P-38 pilot's compartment by comparison is very exposed.

A legit question IMO is whether the pilot's compartment is the target "object" that needs to be hit for there to be a pilot wound, or is the pilot himself modeled into the aircraft as a separate hit object.  My belief is that the pilot is modeled, but I do not recall having heard a definitive answer on that subject.  If it is not, then any aircraft with a relatively large-volume pilot compartment (read - Mossie) would be at a disadvantage.

Finally, I am a bit perplexed at the claims that the P-38 isn't that much bigger than a P-51. 

LOCKHEED P-38J LIGHTNING:
   _____________________   _________________   _______________________
 
   spec                    metric              english
   _____________________   _________________   _______________________

   wingspan                15.85 meters        52 feet
   wing area               30.42 sq_meters     327.5 sq_feet
   length                  11.53 meters        37 feet 10 inches
   height                  2.99 meters         9 feet 10 inches

NORTH AMERICAN P-51D (MUSTANG IV):
   _____________________   _________________   _______________________
 
   spec                    metric              english
   _____________________   _________________   _______________________

   wingspan                11.28 meters        37 feet
   wing area                                        233.2sq ft
   length                  9.83 meters         32 feet 3 inches
   height                  4.16 meters         13 feet 8 inches

The P-38 is about 40% larger wing span and wing area -- that alone says it should be hit much more often than a Pony given any standard dispersion of ack fire.

[Karnak]

I don't feel the Mossie takes more flak hits than it should, and it definitely takes them better than the Spitfire, other than the pilot wound thing.

[Ack-Ack]

I guess I must have a SAPP Special P-38 because I rarely get pilot wounds from puffy acks, usually damage is to my wings or flight surfaces.  So, I really can't agree that P-38s suffer an usually high rate of pilot wounds from puffy acks. 



ack-ack