all citizens...Hand over your guns on demand

[wrag]

It's not unusual, more or less that it's not as likely as a .40 pistol or sawed-off shotgun.  I never said you'd see it all the time, I provided the one instance I know about.
This defies sane logic.  One is a sniper rifle, the other an automatic machine gun.  Both would result in many casualties, but chances are, the AK would take out more people then the sniper rifle.  Either way, people will/would die.  You don't know what would actually happen.  The gangbanger could be ex Marine Recon, while the redneck was just a plain Jane Army grunt.  Add in rates of fire, reload times, mobility, and many other variables and it'd become clear that the AK-47 has a distinct advantage over a sniper rifle.  And, is it close combat or from a mile away?  Your little comparison is awfully vague.

Also, it'd make more sense if you said sniper instead of paratrooper.

The Second Amendment allows every American the chance (unless a felon) to own a firearm.  Unless regulations are put in place, the great people of this country would be mounting Gatling guns to their vehicles.  You cut someone off on the express way and you'd be getting torn in half by a Gatling gun.  This argument is alot like owning a pitbull.  Why does someone need to own a M16, or AK-47?  They aren't good hunting weapons, the M16 is fragile.  Do they need to protect themselves from 10 feet tall angry wolverines?  I personally own weapons, and am appreciative of it, but I'm not going to have a seizure over the fact my government says no assault weapons.
Are you serious?

hmmm................

you're 13 right?   You sound 13 and you sound like you're filled with what many 13 year olds coming out of our schools seem to believe.

"The Second Amendment allows every American the chance (unless a felon) to own a firearm."  Chance?  Have your EVER READ the preamble to the Bill of Fights?  The word CHANCE does NOT appear there.

"Unless regulations are put in place, the great people of this country would be mounting Gatling guns to their vehicles.  You cut someone off on the express way and you'd be getting torn in half by a Gatling gun."

Again you SEEM MISINFORMED... as it is ALREADY illegal to mount Gatling guns on vehicles AND you must have a special license to own a Gatling gun.

I hope you're not one of those idiots??????  the ones that seem to think it's ok to "You cut someone off on the express way ......"

[wrag]

From the replies I've seen, the wording, and such by smkelly13......

sounds young?

hasn't answered several questions....

and IMHO is uninformed/misinformed, wants attention really bad, or perhaps is a deliberate troll?

[smkelly13]

From the replies I've seen, the wording, and such by smkelly13......

sounds young?

hasn't answered several questions....

and IMHO is uninformed/misinformed, wants attention really bad, or perhaps is a deliberate troll?

Not terribly young, depends on what you consider to be young.  If you're 40, then yes, I would be considered young next to you.  I'm actually 23, former United States Marine, reached the rank of Corporal in the 0811 MOS field (I shot and operated the M-198 medium towed howitzer). 

I don't have steady internet access, when I'm online however, I will address any and all question thrown my direction.

I've been told that I am an attention potato.  It happens.  I'm not trying to stir the hornets nest, and do actually like this forum, I wish politics and religion were open topics of discussion though.  If you guys think I'm being a troll, I'll tone it down a notch.  I mean no offense, and just want to have a conversation about something that interests me. 

Opinions will differ, I don't expect you to share my same outlooks, or what have you, just as you hopefully share the same ideology. 

[Golfer]

Any time I've ever encountered an officer as a CCW holder in multiple states including visiting states all I've ever had to do is inform the officer that I was licensed to and was carrying a weapon.  I've always presented the cards with my drivers license for verification but I have never ever been asked for the firearm and it's best left where it is in my opinion.  In fact I've never been asked where it was.

Repo is the very first LEO I've heard of who regularly asks for those people to present their concealed carry weapons.

[smkelly13]

hmmm................

you're 13 right?   You sound 13 and you sound like you're filled with what many 13 year olds coming out of our schools seem to believe.

"The Second Amendment allows every American the chance (unless a felon) to own a firearm."  Chance?  Have your EVER READ the preamble to the Bill of Fights?  The word CHANCE does NOT appear there.

"Unless regulations are put in place, the great people of this country would be mounting Gatling guns to their vehicles.  You cut someone off on the express way and you'd be getting torn in half by a Gatling gun."

Again you SEEM MISINFORMED... as it is ALREADY illegal to mount Gatling guns on vehicles AND you must have a special license to own a Gatling gun.

I hope you're not one of those idiots??????  the ones that seem to think it's ok to "You cut someone off on the express way ......"

1.  You try to dog me on things, but look at the first bolded part of your response.  The Bill of Fights?  Obviously you meant the Bill of Rights.  I read the preamble back in high school, but unfortunately, I cannot remember everything I read.
2.  I wasn't quoting the Bill of Rights, so I don't understand your tone regarding my usage of the word chance.  Everyone has the right to own a weapon, but not everyone has a chance to do so.  Minus felons of course.
3.  And why is it illegal, I may ask?  Why would the government possibly make it illegal?  Exactly why I put it in my post.  Because if it wasn't illegal, people would have them mounted on their vehicles. 
4.  No, I am not one of those people who intentionally cut people off, but accidents do happen.

[Elfie]

Any time I've ever encountered an officer as a CCW holder in multiple states including visiting states all I've ever had to do is inform the officer that I was licensed to and was carrying a weapon.  I've always presented the cards with my drivers license for verification but I have never ever been asked for the firearm and it's best left where it is in my opinion.  In fact I've never been asked where it was.

Repo is the very first LEO I've heard of who regularly asks for those people to present their concealed carry weapons.

He is the first I have heard of as well.

Something else he likely has not thought of is that those who volunteer that they are carrying are not the people he needs to be worried about securing their weapons. Those are the law abiding. The ones that would likely do him harm would not be inclined to tell him they are carrying a weapon prior to shooting him.

[Airborne]

Have you ever used an M-16 for an extended period of time?
When I got sent to Louisana to help clean up the katrina mess, we had to have plastic wrapping around the entire weapon, because if a M-16 gets a little wet, it'll rust within minutes.  Let alone the jamming frequency of the weapon, it's plastic stock that'd break if used for close combat.  They'll rust completely shut if used in water, and they'll jam if sand gets poured in the weapon.  Yes, they are absolutely fragile.  Talk to me after you've been in the armed services.

 I know of very few combat units- if any, that use the M16 anymore, and I've been serving since 2000. The M16 and M4 carbine are precision built weapons with little tolerance of debree in them--- but they are very accurate. And why would you pour sand in them? Proper maintenance and care is a must for any weapon, even the loosely built and relatively inaccurate (depending on range) AK47. Ive been in many environments with both the M16 and M4 weapons and will tell you this- they are not fragile by any means.... Ever had to mortar an M4 due to stoppage? (slamming the buttstock on the ground while pulling the charging handle) Ever had to USE the weapon? I have never, in over 8 years had a buttstock break in training or on deployment from striking anything..... Possibly poor maintenance/pmcs practices on your part, but you can find fault in the weapon itself for that.

However, I am not in love with the weapon, as a 4 MOA weapon, it lacks what my 1 MOA AR15 can do. (MOA is minutes of angle, basically, a 4 MOA weapon will place a round at 100 meters in a 4in circle, regardless of weapon control- MOA x hundreds of meters)

and Im quite sure the wrapping is more for making sure the guys dont have to clean their weapons as much, because you wont find wrapping on my weapon when im overseas, never have and never will--- I just take care to oil it properly, not too much so it gunks with sand, but enough to keep it lubed, and when I get a chance, wipe it down quickly..

I recentley went through another Long range marksmanship course and over the period of 5 days I average 1500 rounds per day, significantley more than I would fire overseas in one day- and I had 2 jams in 5 days. I only cleaned my weapon at the end of the day, properly, for the next days firing, and I did not wipe the weapon down except during our MRE break.....

Pretty good if you ask me.


Oh, and as a 6 year Airborne Infantryman, and recentley (last two years) Forward Observer, I love gun-bunnies- you know, the guys who fire their rifles at the range for qual and that pretty much sums it up..

[DJ111]

Any time I've ever encountered an officer as a CCW holder in multiple states including visiting states all I've ever had to do is inform the officer that I was licensed to and was carrying a weapon.  I've always presented the cards with my drivers license for verification but I have never ever been asked for the firearm and it's best left where it is in my opinion.  In fact I've never been asked where it was.

Repo is the very first LEO I've heard of who regularly asks for those people to present their concealed carry weapons.

That's the LAST thing I want someone to do, is to reach for their weapon and hand it to me.

Nuh-uh, Homey don't play that...

Keep your dam hands on the steering wheel, if you move them, prepare to have my Sig screwed in your ear faster than you can blink.

[smkelly13]

I know of very few combat units- if any, that use the M16 anymore, and I've been serving since 2000. The M16 and M4 carbine are precision built weapons with little tolerance of debree in them--- but they are very accurate. And why would you pour sand in them? Proper maintenance and care is a must for any weapon, even the loosely built and relatively inaccurate (depending on range) AK47. Ive been in many environments with both the M16 and M4 weapons and will tell you this- they are not fragile by any means.... Ever had to mortar an M4 due to stoppage? (slamming the buttstock on the ground while pulling the charging handle) Ever had to USE the weapon? I have never, in over 8 years had a buttstock break in training or on deployment from striking anything..... Possibly poor maintenance/pmcs practices on your part, but you can find fault in the weapon itself for that.

However, I am not in love with the weapon, as a 4 MOA weapon, it lacks what my 1 MOA AR15 can do. (MOA is minutes of angle, basically, a 4 MOA weapon will place a round at 100 meters in a 4in circle, regardless of weapon control- MOA x hundreds of meters)

and Im quite sure the wrapping is more for making sure the guys dont have to clean their weapons as much, because you wont find wrapping on my weapon when im overseas, never have and never will--- I just take care to oil it properly, not too much so it gunks with sand, but enough to keep it lubed, and when I get a chance, wipe it down quickly..

I recentley went through another Long range marksmanship course and over the period of 5 days I average 1500 rounds per day, significantley more than I would fire overseas in one day- and I had 2 jams in 5 days. I only cleaned my weapon at the end of the day, properly, for the next days firing, and I did not wipe the weapon down except during our MRE break.....

Pretty good if you ask me.


Oh, and as a 6 year Airborne Infantryman, and recentley (last two years) Forward Observer, I love gun-bunnies- you know, the guys who fire their rifles at the range for qual and that pretty much sums it up..

1.  Never said they weren't accurate, just that they have zero stopping power, unless you take out the brain housing group.  Like the saying goes, two to the chest, one to the head.  I've been told by many officers, O-5 and up, that the reason that phrase came up was due to the lack of stopping power.  In combat, why waste three rounds on someone?

2.  Jesus.  Okay, if you're in Iraq, humping through the desert, or say for practical purposes, 29 stumps, and there's a wind storm.  All of the loose sand, and there is a lot of it, it'll clog the weapon, and make it jam.  I've seen it plenty of times.

3.  Proper maintenance?  I always reeked of CLP.  Listen, don't assume you know a thing about me, or what I did in the service.  It's nice that you're a forward observer, but I'm the guy you're calling when you need a fire mission.

4.  Well good for you friend.  In my EXPERIENCE though, it is a fragile weapon. 

5.  Yes on both accounts.

6.  Again, you're assuming I was a lazy Marine and didn't properly take care of my weapon.  I know there's a rivalry between the two branches (Army & Marine for the record, so NO ONE will be confused) but trying to say I didn't take care of weapon is a low blow.

7.  And you'd be wrong, again.  We were in Louisana, during the aftermath of HURRICANE KATRINA.  That means it was rainy, and flooded.  LOTS OF WATER.

[Airborne]

1.  Never said they weren't accurate, just that they have zero stopping power, unless you take out the brain housing group.  Like the saying goes, two to the chest, one to the head.  I've been told by many officers, O-5 and up, that the reason that phrase came up was due to the lack of stopping power.  In combat, why waste three rounds on someone?

2.  Jesus.  Okay, if you're in Iraq, humping through the desert, or say for practical purposes, 29 stumps, and there's a wind storm.  All of the loose sand, and there is a lot of it, it'll clog the weapon, and make it jam.  I've seen it plenty of times.

3.  Proper maintenance?  I always reeked of CLP.  Listen, don't assume you know a thing about me, or what I did in the service.  It's nice that you're a forward observer, but I'm the guy you're calling when you need a fire mission.

4.  Well good for you friend.  In my EXPERIENCE though, it is a fragile weapon. 

5.  Yes on both accounts.

6.  Again, you're assuming I was a lazy Marine and didn't properly take care of my weapon.  I know there's a rivalry between the two branches (Army & Marine for the record, so NO ONE will be confused) but trying to say I didn't take care of weapon is a low blow.

7.  And you'd be wrong, again.  We were in Louisana, during the aftermath of HURRICANE KATRINA.  That means it was rainy, and flooded.  LOTS OF WATER.

The .223/5.56 is not a power hitting round, it is a tumbling and "bounce around" round designed to inflict alot of damage inside, not from sheer velocity and kinetic energy.

And reeking of CLP--- heavily oiled weapons, as this leads me to believe is the practice, and as it is in most cases, is improper maintenance/use of the lubricant.

The rest doesnt warrant an answer, other than a quick jibe-- Artillery hasnt been used in any significant amount since the invasion, organic mortars FTW- that and CAS/CCA. Let me know when I can retire because gunbunnies can see what theyre shooting at

[Shamus]

Any time I've ever encountered an officer as a CCW holder in multiple states including visiting states all I've ever had to do is inform the officer that I was licensed to and was carrying a weapon.  I've always presented the cards with my drivers license for verification but I have never ever been asked for the firearm and it's best left where it is in my opinion.  In fact I've never been asked where it was.

Repo is the very first LEO I've heard of who regularly asks for those people to present their concealed carry weapons.

It is quite common for leo's to take possession of the weapon in a traffic stop here, we are required by law to notify if we are carrying.

I have even had them come back to the car after running my tag and ops and ask if i was carrying when I wasn't, ops or tag must be flagged for ccw holders here, I wonder if that would be probable cause to search the vehicle?

shamus

[wrag]

1.  You try to dog me on things, but look at the first bolded part of your response.  The Bill of Fights?  Obviously you meant the Bill of Rights.  I read the preamble back in high school, but unfortunately, I cannot remember everything I read.
2.  I wasn't quoting the Bill of Rights, so I don't understand your tone regarding my usage of the word chance.  Everyone has the right to own a weapon, but not everyone has a chance to do so.  Minus felons of course.
3.  And why is it illegal, I may ask?  Why would the government possibly make it illegal?  Exactly why I put it in my post.  Because if it wasn't illegal, people would have them mounted on their vehicles. 
4.  No, I am not one of those people who intentionally cut people off, but accidents do happen.

Dog you?  I don't think that is the case.  Yes that is correct I meant the Bill of Rights.

But I AM calling you on some things that I see, that appear unclear, in your post.

I now elaborate.....

Best way I can say it............

From your previous post I get the impression that you hold the belief that UNALIENABLE means it CAN be taken away.....

The Government can and should CONTROL everyone for their own good....................


This part is UNCLEAR to me.....

"I wasn't quoting the Bill of Rights, so I don't understand your tone regarding my usage of the word chance.  Everyone has the right to own a weapon, but not everyone has a chance to do so."

What are you actually saying here???   That Government refuses to allow them to have weapons?   That they're too poor?  Please be more clear!


Sure looked to me like you were saying..... "Unless regulations are put in place," ..... this suggest that you did NOT realize regulations are ALREADY in place..............

and I now see.....  "Exactly why I put it in my post.  Because if it wasn't illegal, people would have them mounted on their vehicles."  would be VERY expensive to do so?  And of course they COULD be charged with MURDER for using them wouldn't they?


Gatling guns on vehicles... not that it would be a good idea mind you, but it would PROBABLY reduce stupid driving.  IF SOME people THOUGHT about the seriousness of the consequences of their actions perhaps they wouldn't be so quick to commit them?

I saw a bobtail semi go over the side of an overpass due to someone, in a small car, cutting him off, saw it happen right in front of me, and it was raining.  The driver of that bobtail semi did his very best to avoid hitting anyone.  I could see him whirling the steering wheel of his truck back and forth.  Skidded across 3 lanes of traffic, frantically missing cars, hit the rail and over he went. If traffic hadn't been so heavy he might have survived.  His right fuel tank came off and fell right in front of me. Damaged my vehicle trying to NOT go over with him.  Had my sons in the vehicle with me.

If I could have gotten the idiots license plate number..................  Manslaughter charges at the least!  IMO That was pure selfish, I'm in a hurry and no one else matters, negligence on that small car drivers part.

[wrag]

1.  Never said they weren't accurate, just that they have zero stopping power, unless you take out the brain housing group.  Like the saying goes, two to the chest, one to the head.  I've been told by many officers, O-5 and up, that the reason that phrase came up was due to the lack of stopping power.  In combat, why waste three rounds on someone?

2.  Jesus.  Okay, if you're in Iraq, humping through the desert, or say for practical purposes, 29 stumps, and there's a wind storm.  All of the loose sand, and there is a lot of it, it'll clog the weapon, and make it jam.  I've seen it plenty of times.

3.  Proper maintenance?  I always reeked of CLP.  Listen, don't assume you know a thing about me, or what I did in the service.  It's nice that you're a forward observer, but I'm the guy you're calling when you need a fire mission.

4.  Well good for you friend.  In my EXPERIENCE though, it is a fragile weapon. 

5.  Yes on both accounts.

6.  Again, you're assuming I was a lazy Marine and didn't properly take care of my weapon.  I know there's a rivalry between the two branches (Army & Marine for the record, so NO ONE will be confused) but trying to say I didn't take care of weapon is a low blow.

7.  And you'd be wrong, again.  We were in Louisana, during the aftermath of HURRICANE KATRINA.  That means it was rainy, and flooded.  LOTS OF WATER.

Did it ever occur to anyone that the weapon was WRAPPED because it was NOT supposed to be used against American civilians?  That the use of it was only intended if the troops came under attack?

So it was wrapped to make it NECESSARY to do specific things BEFORE it could be used.

[CAP1]

Any time I've ever encountered an officer as a CCW holder in multiple states including visiting states all I've ever had to do is inform the officer that I was licensed to and was carrying a weapon.  I've always presented the cards with my drivers license for verification but I have never ever been asked for the firearm and it's best left where it is in my opinion.  In fact I've never been asked where it was.

Repo is the very first LEO I've heard of who regularly asks for those people to present their concealed carry weapons.

question......

you're licenced to carry in ohio. does that licence apply where ever you may travel?

[Airborne]

I'm with ya, bro.  But the harsh reality is that if a LEO feels he may be in danger, he is NOT going to calmly discuss constitutional rights.  He is going to want you to comply NOW.  Failing to do so would not end well for either or both of you.  Like I posted earlier, if it escalates....it would be the word of a LEO against a body on the ground with a gun laying next to it.

Kind of depends on where it takes place and the situation.. A LEO may run into a well informed person on gun laws and rights on his property who has a little more trigger time than he does, so it could very well end in another way.

I understand making a weapon safe and whatnot to be checked for proper hunting practices when on public land, what really upsets me is the targeting of citizens utilizing their right to open-carry as disturbing the peace.

Also, when I have- usually- a weapon in my vehicle for personal defense and I get pulled over, I simply cross my hands on the steering wheel, which tells the LEO I have a weapon, and wait for him to ask me where it is.. I have never been asked to leave my vehicle or present the weapon, only what kind it is and if its loaded, and in Texas, if I have my concealed carry license.. where I am at now, Alaska, open carry and concealed is allowed.