Author Topic: Global Warming (Read 1339 times)

DJ111 · « **Reply #45 on:** January 18, 2009, 12:56:09 PM »

Quote from: MORAY37 on January 18, 2009, 12:15:06 PM

Angus is pointing out that weather and climate are two different things. Maybe you might try opening a book, preferably prior to being a jerk.

Climate - The meteorological conditions, including temperature, precipitation, and wind, that characteristically prevail in a particular region.

Weather - The state of the atmosphere at a given time and place, with respect to variables such as temperature, moisture, wind velocity, and barometric pressure.

Pretty much the only difference is the measure of time...

I was pointing out a funny typo from my local weather station... I'm sorry this thread is too serious for some humor.

Will you ever forgive me?

Angus · « **Reply #46 on:** January 18, 2009, 02:20:42 PM »

How completely advanced sense of humour.
Almost tops the volcanoes being 100 times above the humans in regards of CO2.....

DJ111 · « **Reply #47 on:** January 18, 2009, 04:33:57 PM »

MORAY37 · « **Reply #48 on:** January 18, 2009, 10:29:52 PM »

You want to know what things peeve those in science? Things like these....

Quote

With the axing of the CNN Science News team, most science stories at CNN are now being given to general assignment reporters who don't necessarily have the background to know when they are being taken for a ride. On the Lou Dobbs show (an evening news program on cable for those of you not in the US), the last few weeks have brought a series of embarrassing non-stories on 'global cooling' based it seems on a few cold snaps this winter, the fact that we are at a solar minimum and a regurgitation of 1970s vintage interpretations of Milankovitch theory (via Pravda of all places!). Combine that with a few hysterical (in both senses) non-scientists as talking heads and you end up with a repeat of the nonsensical 'Cooling world' media stories that were misleading in the 1970s and are just as misleading now.

Hate that damn network.

drdeathx · « **Reply #49 on:** January 19, 2009, 01:11:16 AM »

The ice age was most probably caused by the merging of continents. This new topic is a "Theory" and is most probably the most off the wall thing out there now. LOL. Read other "Theories" and you may think different.

drdeathx · « **Reply #50 on:** January 19, 2009, 01:12:49 AM »

Quote from: Chalenge on January 12, 2009, 09:31:59 PM

See Rule #14

hehehe

bozon · « **Reply #51 on:** January 19, 2009, 02:30:23 AM »

Quote from: MORAY37 on January 18, 2009, 10:29:52 PM

Hate that damn network.

It's not just CNN. Popular media, even respectable newspapers are incredibly unprofessional when it comes to science (and I suspect, not only regarding science). We used to bring funny news bits on our seminars. Things like:
- The core of the earth is an Iron cube! Complete misinterpretation of "cubic Iron lattice" which refers to the lattice arrangement of iron atoms.
- First image of a non solar planet! Only the planet our a dim point that was left out of the picture in the editing. The caption pointed to some background star as "the planet".
and many more...

My university's PR department got a piece into a major Hebrew news site, about my masters thesis. No one from the paper contacted me to ask or verify the details. They just edited the text that was given to them by the PR and published it. Needless to say that even I didn't understand what that was written there.

Professional journalism does not exist any more.

zuii · « **Reply #52 on:** January 19, 2009, 03:10:02 PM »

Do I vote here? (looks around)

I would like to cast one vote in favor of global warming please.

thank you.

Angus · « **Reply #53 on:** January 20, 2009, 02:55:44 AM »

Take a number and get in the line

Chalenge · « **Reply #54 on:** January 20, 2009, 03:27:11 AM »

Did everyone miss the line about CO2 failing to absorb the proper spectrum to absorb and re-emit solar radiation (heat)? Its the chink in the armor of global warming. The 'chicken littles' claim that the additional heat from extra CO2 will cause more water to evaporate from the ocean and cause more clouds to form? But if the water vapor would accelerate warming now why didnt that happen at the Medieval Optimum (1000 AD) or the Holocene Maximum (6000 yrs ago)? Its going to happen now because Al Gore said it will? Horse feathers!

The model Gore is flaunting also contains terrible assumptions about the clouds within the climate models but worse he makes the conclusion while posing the assumption and the very satellite observations Gore depends on were ignored and misrepresented to stress his point (twisting results to suit his desires).

The theory has not been granted one observation confirming any of the predictions made.

This theory is a failure. The main premise of success from this global warming 'religion' is that humans will always assume that things are getting worse around them and buy into snake oil theories from has-been politicians.

Wake up people!

Angus the quote concerning 'the gross average volcanic output of CO2...' comes from the fact that the vast majority of volcanic eruptions occur beneath the sea. Air versus water. Very different chemistry. But this again proves how facts are twisted to make the case for a rabid religion.

Angus · « **Reply #55 on:** January 20, 2009, 04:10:07 AM »

More clouds?
More vapour doesn't have to mean more clouds. Add temperature and more water will be able to stay in the atmosphere WITHOUT forming clouds. You could for that sake have the same amount of clouds with more vapour.
Anyway, the little chicken say that it's possible to accelerate into a Venus scenario. Venus, being further from the Sun than Mercury, is much hotter due to greenhouse gases. So, once the temp starts boiling surface water, the theory is that we go toast.
Personally, I don't buy that, for it didn't happen before with incredible amounts of CO2. Mind you though, that back then, circumstances would not have allowed any "human" life.
IMHO, basically the formula for climate temp is..:
(Solar input - reflection)*Greenhouse gas effect.(probably one point something)
Vapour is greenhouse gas effect. clouds are reflection. Ice is reflection.
Of course this is...coarse, but you get the idea. And the greenhouse gases do have some gravity, - the estimation goes that without them, we'd be frozen over.
Now, volcanoes. 70% of them are underseas. If the activity was equal it would put the humble 1% of HUMAN ACTIVITY up to 3%, WOW.
There is however a reason to doubt the underseas activity to be relatively equal to land activity. Put your brain onto it and tell me why

bozon · « **Reply #56 on:** January 20, 2009, 05:18:19 AM »

Quote from: Angus on January 20, 2009, 04:10:07 AM

IMHO, basically the formula for climate temp is..:
(Solar input - reflection)*Greenhouse gas effect.(probably one point something)

For the life of me, I can't find a more wrong way to formulate this effect. It is so far off that I can't even point at where it is wrong.

Here is an interesting tidbit: In a green house, the energy flux that comes in is EXACTLY the same as the energy flux coming out - or it will keep heating for ever. The green house effect is the shifting of the cooling spectrum, not a change in flux!

Angus · « **Reply #57 on:** January 20, 2009, 05:50:26 AM »

Arrrrfff. Well, put it like this. Without Greenhouse effect, it would be colder. And it's (given some sun) warmer inside a greenhouse than outside it.
Flux in, flux out, the result is a planet staying warmer than without the effect.

zuii · « **Reply #58 on:** January 20, 2009, 06:16:03 AM »

All i know is this (and i certainly aint that smart) in high school were told.."RUN,,, global cooling is coming"
Now its "RUN,,,, global warming is coming" whats frakin next? Run, Global Balmy kinda misty weather is coming"

To much politics involved in all sides of the issue for me.

Im not runin anymore,,, bring it on!!!

zuii

bozon · « **Reply #59 on:** January 20, 2009, 06:48:50 AM »

Angus, I apologize if my previous post seemed mocking. It was not personal.

I am a little frustrated with the constant need of explaining what the greenhouse effect is. It is not just you, an incredible number of people are being mislead by the "popular" description of the greenhouse: "Energy comes in a visible light, but emitted infra-red radiation is blocked from escaping". This simplified, to the point of becoming completely false explanation, hides the complexity of the radiation transfer through earth's atmosphere.

The truth is that atmospheric radiation transfer is a difficult non-linear problem - the absorber properties change with pressure and temperature. The effect of changing the composition of the atmosphere is a change in the vertical temperature structure, not necessarily heating of the surface by any significant amount. For example: molecular absorption happens in very specific wavelengths (spectral lines). If at some atmospheric layer a line is saturated (complete absorption of all emission in this narrow wavelength region) adding more absorption will have almost no effect. If you now broaden the width of the lines by higher temperature or pressure than this extra absorption comes into play - but not in a simple way, because the absorption in every wavelength interval around the line center is lower, so some radiation will pass more easily though the layer... etc, etc, etc...

Some scientists make people believe that they can throw everything into a big computer and get the answer - they get AN answer, which is only as good or as worse as their models and the approximations they were forced to make. Uncertainty is something that is tracked in good science. In the case of global warming, the Human contribution is consistent with ZERO within one standard deviation. It does not means that the result is wrong - it means that we can't trust it. As strange as it sounds, it means that it is not unlikely that our contribution is actually cooling of the planet. I would not lead major world wide plans based on such weak evidence. Using the metaphors I used before, when you do not understand something, it is cheaper, less time consuming and as effective to just slaughter a goat and do the rain dance instead.

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