P-47M

[Motherland]

Funny, I run out of cannon in a Ki-61 than any Ki-84 I've flown in this game.   61's are faster.   

That's probably because the Ki84 has more ammunition. Both are listed in game as being the Ho-5, and due to the mounting they'd have to be synchronized (slower RoF) on the Ki61. Although since they're mounted closer together, they're more lethal, I'd imagine.

[Lusche]

BTW, the Ho-103 are far from being almost eqivalent to .50 cals.

The Ho is shooting a considerable weaker round.

Ho-103

Cartridge: 12.7x81SR
ROF 15
Projectile weight 33g
MV: 770 m/sec

.50cal Browning M2

Cartridge 12.7x99
ROF 13
projectile weight 43g
MV 890

As we have all learned in school: kinetic energy = 1/2*mass*speedē. So you can easily see the M2 has about 70% more kinetic energy than the Ho-103 per bullet.

Taking round type, filling and ROF into account, the M2 can deliver about 50% more destructive energy per second than the Ho-103.

[Stoney]

Those are "drop tank shackles".

Those are the exact same pylons from which they hung bombs.

[Masherbrum]

That is accounted for in the game.  The Ki-84 has greater lethality for a 1 second burst than the Ki-61.
The Ki-61 has less 20mm ammunition.

Then why is the Ki-61 ranked above the 84 on Lusche's chart?

[Krusty]

Those are the exact same pylons from which they hung bombs.

I think it's a matter of role. They had thousands of bomb trucks already in theater, the "hot-rod" never carried them.

[Masherbrum]

I think it's a matter of role. They had thousands of bomb trucks already in theater, the "hot-rod" never carried them.

Correct.   The ONLY configuration I've seen involved three 75 gallon drop tanks on an M.   They did not carry ordnance, other than internal ammo. 

[Lusche]

Then why is the Ki-61 ranked above the 84 on Lusche's chart?

They both have the same value on Lusches's chart.

All gun data is based on the raw, unsynchronized wepaons specs. There may be differences in actual ROF due to mountings in AH, but these differences would be so small that one would barely able to spot it on that graph. But I will open a new thread about this instead of continuing to hijack this one.. 

[Masherbrum]

They both have the same value on Lusches's chart.

All gun data is based on the raw, unsynchronized wepaons specs. There may be differences in actual ROF due to mountings in AH, but these differences would be so small that one would barely able to spot it on that graph. But I will open a new thread about this instead of continuing to hijack this one.. 

If the 84 fires more cannon, it shouldn't be equal.   More ammo fired would tip the balance in the 84's favor.   

FWIW, the Ki-61 doesn't have "weak guns".   A one second burst on a wing/wing root results in a kill.   

[Anaxogoras]

If the 84 fires more cannon, it shouldn't be equal.   More ammo fired would tip the balance in the 84's favor.   

FWIW, the Ki-61 doesn't have "weak guns".   A one second burst on a wing/wing root results in a kill.   

True, and True, though I'd say less than a 1 second burst from a Ki-61 to a wing results in a kill.   The Ki-61 is actually more lethal than the Spit9 and Spit8 because of its .50 cals.

[Masherbrum]

True, and True, though I'd say less than a 1 second burst from a Ki-61 to a wing results in a kill.   The Ki-61 is actually more lethal than the Spit9 and Spit8 because of its .50 cals.

Why is someone else saying the same thing I am?    Thank God someone else uses spartan logic instead of overcomplicating things.   

I just used "1 second burst" as a decent measure of time.   But yeah, plenty of 1/2 second kills here.   

[dev1ant]

If the 84 fires more cannon, it shouldn't be equal.   More ammo fired would tip the balance in the 84's favor.   

FWIW, the Ki-61 doesn't have "weak guns".   A one second burst on a wing/wing root results in a kill.   

A one second burst from almost anything on the wing/wing root will result in a kill.

[Masherbrum]

A one second burst from almost anything on the wing/wing root will result in a kill.

Really?   A Jug won't, pony won't, Hellcat won't, Spit 1 won't, as will many others.   Again, this "data" is flawed big time.   But some choose to almost "rely on this and pass it along".   

I'm curious as to how much Tony Williams knows about the Ho-5 and the Ki-61.   Seeing as only one example exists and cannot even be photographed legally, I know the answer.   His numbers are "guesses" at best.   But if you hop in a virtual Ki-61, you'll notice it will down a con faster than a Ki-84.   I don't shoot at the fuselage, because it is a sponge.   but I bet more than 1/2 of the players playing this game, "aim for what they can take."   

[Lusche]

You may check out his numerous publications about the aircraft guns, most notably the books

Flying Guns: Development of Aircraft Guns, Ammunition and Installations (three volumes: WW1; WW2; The Modern Era)

and

Rapid Fire: the Development of Automatic Cannon, Heavy Machine Guns and their Ammunition for Armies, Navies and Air Forces

Also note he isn't part of the "Ki-61 POS conspiracy". He didn't say anything about the Ki, he's publishing & researching about guns.

The performance of the Ho-5 is well known & documented, btw.

[Bronk]

   But if you hop in a virtual Ki-61, you'll notice it will down a con faster than a Ki-84.  

Convergence is a non issue in the 61... that is be my opinion.

[eddiek]

LOL..........okay, can you guys take your weapons discussion to another thread, please?
This one is for and about the P-47M, remember?   
Thanks...........