Author Topic: Why are they leaving?  (Read 9335 times)

Offline Murdr

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Re: Why are they leaving?
« Reply #60 on: January 13, 2009, 10:11:26 PM »
Here's one humble...


Step 1. New game,every thing is a challange lots of fun.
Step 2. Some chalanges over come, still a lot to learn , still having fun.
Step 3. Have gained some friends, Figure out new and chalanging things to do to gether, still having fun.
Step 4. Few friends leave, play less, still have fun on ocation.
Step 5. Rembers the fun they used to have, log on for that fun, but can't seem to get that all encompasing, time passes by hours and feels like minets feeling anymore. But they still hold out hope for that feeling.
Step 6. Feeling just dons't realy come back, Start blaming everyone else and the game for them not having that feeling any more.
Step 7. Become vocal about yourself not having fun. Try to persuade everone else that you not having fun is all there fault.


I have seen this cycle repeated over and over with people. Most people tend to retire at 5. And only a rair few ever make it to step 7.

What I have never figured out, is how HTC should deal with the step 7 player. Let them complain, or take action and just end there suffering.

HiTech

Sorry.  I'll have to agree with humble.  The skill paradigm humble describes seems to be obsolete, and is more like score any way you can without shame.  How about this model?

Step 1. New game,every thing is a challange lots of fun.
Step 2. Some chalanges over come, still a lot to learn , still having fun.
Step 3. Have gained some friends, take the path of least resistance, fly in a horde, and annoy everyone else with your proclimations of uberness.
Step 4. Call the vets whiners and tell them to S T F U for pointing out your lack of abilities.
Step 5. Take ownership of gameplay by sheer numbers of mediocraty and indifference to skills as they are not needed in a horde.

Offline uptown

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Re: Why are they leaving?
« Reply #61 on: January 13, 2009, 10:13:55 PM »
uptown, sir, you are way way way off base with this one, better spit out a hidden hook you never saw, when you bit!  ;)
DOH! Well then a apologize for calling kayara a tomato head ..or whatever the filter called him  :lol
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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Why are they leaving?
« Reply #62 on: January 13, 2009, 10:26:05 PM »
Here's one humble...

Sorry.  I'll have to agree with humble.  The skill paradigm humble describes seems to be obsolete, and is more like score any way you can without shame.  How about this model?

Step 1. New game,every thing is a challange lots of fun.
Step 2. Some chalanges over come, still a lot to learn , still having fun.
Step 3. Have gained some friends, take the path of least resistance, fly in a horde, and annoy everyone else with your proclimations of uberness.
Step 4. Call the vets whiners and tell them to S T F U for pointing out your lack of abilities.
Step 5. Take ownership of gameplay by sheer numbers of mediocraty and indifference to skills as they are not needed in a horde.

I am going to save this, print it and frame it with the date posted on it....... no offense to HTC and Aces High, but this is Classic and at the same time the present truth..... and at the same time, I will step up and take part of the blame, since I am a "oldtimer" that has posted on occassion and have not really done everything I could possibly do to make the situation at hand better than it is..........
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline humble

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Re: Why are they leaving?
« Reply #63 on: January 13, 2009, 10:27:50 PM »
Murdr,

I have the utmost respect for Dale and company. No question I've changed in response to my environment, its inevitable. However I think the "unhappiness" here comes from an unwillingness to continue to adapt. The aspects of the game I love are being constantly eroded. So in the end it seems your left with a choice of extremes. Either join the herd and fly double superior planes vs over matched guys who you still respect for flying against the numbers, fly double superior planes against the numbers and use the green guys as bait and decoys or continue to fly "old school" against ever increasing odds and get your brains beat out. You can only get killed so many times by the "nth guy in" before it grates on you. I think thats where I finally went A-20/SBD. I guess in the end its a statement of some kind that tried to say "look at all your missing by not even trying to scratch the surface".

What I dont understand is why you cant have a "tactical arena" in addition to the current one. No formations, no 4 engine bombers, variable plane set by field, increasing toughness for capture as you move further to "the rear" etc.. I also suggested a historic (by country) revolving plane set (again tactical). My thought is that Japan, Russia, England would be a good match up to start.  

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Offline smokey23

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Re: Why are they leaving?
« Reply #64 on: January 13, 2009, 10:34:36 PM »
I think its a combination of all the things you mentioned uptown. Its to bad , were loseing alot of skilled players.

Offline FiLtH

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Re: Why are they leaving?
« Reply #65 on: January 13, 2009, 10:41:22 PM »
 This is a good post. If the older guys are leaving as you say, I'll slide in my 2 cents. I didnt read every reply so some of what I say may have been said.

   First off, AW and AH are two totally different animals. AW had arenas of the same planes, but gave a choice for what they called RR and FR. Less people per arena compared to AH's LW MAs, but it didnt feel it. AH has more arenas, each slightly different in plane sets. The main difference is that there is no easy setting for RR like in AW "relaxed Realism". This forces all players into one arena, or atleast one style. Learn or burn.

   This is good because it forces everyone to fly together and more realisticly. But its also a bad thing from my point of view. It forces grown men to play with children. This is never good. It exposes children to adults in a way they may not be used to. Rather than looking up to them, they look at them as peers and no respect comes from it, and likely carries over into their real world in some small way.

    The adults among children, often get caught up in the fight and competition, often forget they are playing with children, and start acting like one themselves. Maybe its because I flew in FR "full realism" (as real as AW got) I didnt fly with kids, I didnt know of any in the game. I suspected it was a cost thing, but most likely the kids were in RR.

   I would love to see an arena tailored for adults if there was a way to do it. Preferrably 35+


   That said, in AW the good pilots were for the most part good people. Many of the good pilots in here come off as just plain nasty. It makes for a sour environment. Most, rather than teach, would rather belittle their opponents, "OWNED"...yuck. The funny thing is remember when some of these new aces werent very good, and seeing their personalities change when they finally got good...and many for the worse.


    Another thing, there are too many people in one arena. Too many hordes, too few good fights between pilots. Less is better. Its more personal. I think that is the lure of early and mid wars for many in here. You get to know your opponents better, and chances are, with a few exceptions you can have better relationships with them.

    Another thing different with AW was you didnt have the HO. You had to outfly the guy to get atleast a 45 degree angle to have your bullets actually hit. ( Although some 38s did seem to get HO hits at times)
In here you have the luxury of spraying at any angle with no real flying other than FAST to worry about.

    Finally, many of us have played for years. No matter that its one of our favorite pass times, its tends to get stale after so many years. For the rest of you remember this. There were many sim aces before you, and there will be many after you. You arent the be all end all. Get over yourselves, learn to help others who find this game difficult, and start making the next crop of aces so you have good fights ahead of you.

  Sorry for the long winded reply, but AH isnt the problem. Its the mentality of its players.

 Play nice.

  

~AoM~

Offline 999000

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Re: Why are they leaving?
« Reply #66 on: January 13, 2009, 10:48:28 PM »
I love you filth...I know it just doesn't sound right....
<S>999000

Offline Rising41

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Re: Why are they leaving?
« Reply #67 on: January 13, 2009, 10:58:27 PM »
What I don't understand is if folks are so frustrated w/the game play in the MA. Why don't they move into one of the lesser populated arenas and rebuild the game there? AvA is a no population arena 22 hours a day. Early war not much better. These arenas are wide open invitations to at least attempt to establish the code of honor many here say is gone. I as a new player would love to log into one of these servers full of people who love the planes and tactics rather than the scores or uber aircraft.

Riceball.
(This post is not ment as troll bait. All due respect, I really don't understand why someone keeps beating thier head against a wall when the doors right there.)


Offline TOMCAT21

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Re: Why are they leaving?
« Reply #68 on: January 13, 2009, 11:01:16 PM »
I agree with what has been said. I have only been at this game for alittle over 2 years and the luster hasnt worn of yet. There is still plenty for me to learn and on occassion I have asked the skilled/veteran players for tips and or advice. I have yet to run across someone that didnt want to help me. MY aspiration is not to replace of the old guard, those are shoes I cannot fill, I do want to be competitive. I wanna learn fighters, by far my weakest area and I am taking steps toward that...oh hell...train of thought is gone and so am I.
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Why are they leaving?
« Reply #69 on: January 13, 2009, 11:06:43 PM »
And you've personally discussed this with each of them?  Your positive you know exactly why they left?

I think a lot of people who leave are burnt out and declare other reasons ad-hoc; especially the "gameplay in decline" type of reasons.  Human psychology is surreptitious like that.  Nothing spells addiction and burnout better than threads like this: omg! Why are people leaving?! What's happening?!

The arenas have always been the same thing.  Lots of furballing, ganging, and running away.  It was the same damn thing more than 10 years ago in HT's warbirds, and you heard the same whines about people who didn't play with honor, and who didn't fight like they ought to.  And the people complaining would wax nostalgic about Confirmed Kill, and about how much better the fights were, yada, yada, yada...  All these poor guys have lasted longer than is humanly imaginable.  Take a break, a long break.  I was away from online flight sims for more than 6 years before I got the hankering again.  It's always scenarios/FSOs (squadron select series) that are worth the time and effort, and that's the way it will always be.  The main arenas are a hamster wheel that suit the lowest common denominator, and yet, people act surprised or indignant when that's pointed out.

Ok, I've had a few.  That's my $.02.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2009, 11:16:54 PM by Anaxogoras »
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Offline Oldman731

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Re: Why are they leaving?
« Reply #70 on: January 13, 2009, 11:27:51 PM »
They tend to play for the love of the subject matter not for the love of "the game" itself

Yikes, I agree with Zazen.

I think that the change from WWII aviation hobbyists to...whoever it is we have today....has been key to the way the game has changed.  In AvA I think it's probably more pronounced because, once you lose people who want to see what the Battle of Britain was like, or the Battle of Berlin, or Guadalcanal or the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot, you're left with a smaller collection of planes, and one side usually has an advantage of some sort over the other side.  The historians didn't mind this so much, but it's a tough sell to the win-the-war crowd (many of whom are at a loss to even identify the foregoing battles).

Having said that (and, I think, having seen that change with my own eyes), the halcyon days of yore glow more brightly than they actually were.  By the end of 1995 I certainly knew the terms "ganging," "vuching" and "porking."  There were bad sports then, just as there are now.  But I do think that nearly everyone valued 1v1 skill more than they do now, too.  The ability to "win" the war in AH is different from earlier games, and it is bound to produce different behavior in the players. 

So:  sooner or later, the dinosaurs slink off into the mountains, and the world changes.

- oldman

Offline Delirium

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Re: Why are they leaving?
« Reply #71 on: January 14, 2009, 12:09:47 AM »
I agree with many of the sentiments around here, but I still feel that many of the new players just need a chance.

I was passionate about the joy in fighting mobs without alt or speed advantage on a recent thread about hordes. I offered my limited teaching abilities to a member of a large squad on this thread and recently he took advantage of it.

The results were dramatic, this guy was not only cordial but he also was a sponge and went from being a target drone to a decent stick in a slow stall fight. I really welcome the chance to show him more, not only because both of us enjoyed ourselves but also because I know I am giving back to the game, in some small manner.

The problem is that many of the new players will never experience the joy of sparring with one plane and instead have decided on using crutch of the hordes around them. Here is a couple quotes;

Quote
"Don't go flying off on your own, we can kill the rooks easier if we all attack one plane at a time. Then we drop the hangers"

Quote
We use our squads biggest strength, which is numbers. We can still take a base with an ENY of 26, and we can take your base with the hardest planes to fly. It doesn't matter what we do, we can still take any base with great effectiveness. And that's why we do it.
50% of us, don't need to go back to our "hordes" to get kills, but like I said, we are effective at what we do, and why would we change it? we have the numbers almost every night against any squad in the game, we even get a scrolly bar sometimes."

The problem is that not all the new players care about the odds, nor do they know one iota of history.
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Offline Nightshift82

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Re: Why are they leaving?
« Reply #72 on: January 14, 2009, 12:22:24 AM »
I agree with many of the sentiments around here, but I still feel that many of the new players just need a chance.

I was passionate about the joy in fighting mobs without alt or speed advantage on a recent thread about hordes. I offered my limited teaching abilities to a member of a large squad on this thread and recently he took advantage of it.

The results were dramatic, this guy was not only cordial but he also was a sponge and went from being a target drone to a decent stick in a slow stall fight. I really welcome the chance to show him more, not only because both of us enjoyed ourselves but also because I know I am giving back to the game, in some small manner.

The problem is that many of the new players will never experience the joy of sparring with one plane and instead have decided on using crutch of the hordes around them. Here is a couple quotes;

The problem is that not all the new players care about the odds, nor do they know one iota of history.

Couldn't agree more!   :aok
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Why are they leaving?
« Reply #73 on: January 14, 2009, 12:30:33 AM »

Step 1. New game,every thing is a challange lots of fun.
Step 2. Some chalanges over come, still a lot to learn , still having fun.
Step 3. Have gained some friends, take the path of least resistance, fly in a horde, and annoy everyone else with your proclimations of uberness.
Step 4. Call the vets whiners and tell them to S T F U for pointing out your lack of abilities.
Step 5. Take ownership of gameplay by sheer numbers of mediocraty and indifference to skills as they are not needed in a horde.

You know what's funny?  I had Biggamer doing Step 4 tonight in the MW arena, he had altitude and was talking crap about how I wouldn't climb up to him.  Instead, I just flew level waiting for him to come down.  When he did finally muster the courage to leave his perch, I quickly shot him down, only to have him pipe up on open channel calling me timid because I wouldn't fall for his rope tricks. 

ack-ack
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Offline Murdr

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Re: Why are they leaving?
« Reply #74 on: January 14, 2009, 12:47:56 AM »
I have the utmost respect for Dale and company.
Ditto
Quote
No question I've changed in response to my environment, its inevitable. However I think the "unhappiness" here comes from an unwillingness to continue to adapt. The aspects of the game I love are being constantly eroded. So in the end it seems your left with a choice of extremes. Either join the herd and fly double superior planes vs over matched guys who you still respect for flying against the numbers, fly double superior planes against the numbers and use the green guys as bait and decoys or continue to fly "old school" against ever increasing odds and get your brains beat out. You can only get killed so many times by the "nth guy in" before it grates on you. I think thats where I finally went A-20/SBD. I guess in the end its a statement of some kind that tried to say "look at all your missing by not even trying to scratch the surface".
Well put.

I offered my limited teaching abilities to a member of a large squad on this thread and recently he took advantage of it.

The results were dramatic, this guy was not only cordial but he also was a sponge and went from being a target drone to a decent stick in a slow stall fight. I really welcome the chance to show him more, not only because both of us enjoyed ourselves but also because I know I am giving back to the game, in some small manner.
:aok :aok :aok :aok and :aok