Aircraft performance and ENY

[442w30]

Not an actual new ENY proposal, just for discussion.. how about this:

If interested, I can post the formula which was used to devise the "new " ENY values.

Why did you stop it at 30 eny?  I like this list more than the current list.   

[Lusche]

Why did you stop it at 30 eny? 

because I didn't notice list was trunctated. 

here's the missing part:

[Anaxogoras]

I didn't say HTC were a perfect model of inerrant attention to keeping the ENY values up to date..  If they were, though, no number crunching could compare.

Do you think HTC would agree that they've paid insufficient attention to keeping ENY current?

[Anaxogoras]

Lusche, a couple questions:

Hurri IIC ENY at 10 seems a little low?  The plane can't reach 300mph ias.

Why is the ENY for the 38J and 38L the same?  The 38L is clearly the superior aircraft.

I'm surprised that you have the 109G-2 with higher ENY than the G-6.

I agree with Bronk that chunks of 5 is too big.

What is your formula?

[moot]

I don't know their schedule, or what the to-do list looks like. I do think it wouldn't take more than one morning or afternoon debating it amongst themselves, if just Pyro or HT on their own couldn't do it in that much time... but that's just my outside guess.  Either way, my bet stands.  Condensing ENY values from the thin air of subjective feeling of what each plane can and can't do in everything that happens in the MA is something number crunching can't compete with.  By the time it does (the time it takes to come up with a competitive model), you could have gut-felt your way to the right integers 10 times over.

I think it would be more realistic to ask HTC to change the worst offenders to some proposed value (e.g. 152, 47N), before asking them to evaluate such a complex system as one that actualy would find the right values for the whole plane/vehicle set.  Unless one of us here is such a computational genius and knows a simple enough algorithm that'd spit out accurate enough values.

[Anaxogoras]

Fair enough.  I respect that opinion.

I think what we all agree on is that ENY needs review.

[Bronk]

Lusche, a couple questions:

Hurri IIC ENY at 10 seems a little low?  The plane can't reach 300mph ias. The ability to carry 2 500 lbers  4 hizzoookas holds e well turns like the devil himself.

Why is the ENY for the 38J and 38L the same?  The 38L is clearly the superior aircraft.Not enough difference except for the hard core 38 nuts to tell.

I'm surprised that you have the 109G-2 with higher ENY than the G-6.
The G-2 is a much easier AC to get the most out of would you not agree?
I agree with Bronk that chunks of 5 is too big.
Hell has just froze over.

What is your formula?

Piqued my interest also.

[Stang]

Unless one of us here is such a computational genius and knows a simple enough algorithm that'd spit out accurate enough values.

I know one guy I think...  <cough> you  <cough>

 

[Anaxogoras]

Bronk, if the G-2 is easier then it's ENY should be lower.  Also, I'm not a 38 nut, but the roll rate superiority of the 38L is about as obvious as differences can be.

The Hurri IIC does not retain energy well.  It's one of the worst, in fact.

[Bronk]

Bronk, if the G-2 is easier then it's ENY should be lower.  Also, I'm not a 38 nut, but the roll rate superiority of the 38L is about as obvious as differences can be.

The Hurri IIC does not retain energy well.  It's one of the worst, in fact.

Woops I some how transposed the positions of the eny for the 109s sorry.

The L roll rate, IIRC is only much better at higher speeds.
There has been some discussion that the 2c's E retention in game is much better than RL. That's why I added that.

[moot]

I know one guy I think...  <cough> you  <cough>

 

You know.. now I can think of a reason for why HT asks for bribes..

Fair enough.  I respect that opinion.

I think what we all agree on is that ENY needs review.

So do it.. Start a thread for each plane (just to avoid too much cross-talk if there's more than two or three) that has an obviously odd value, where everyone on the forum tosses arguments for or against a value suggested in the OP (e.g. 8 for both.), till one value comes out on top. Survival of the fittest ENY integer.

Once that's done, then working on a full planeset algorithm will be the best issue to sort out.

[moot]

double post.

[Lusche]

Lusche, a couple questions:

Hurri IIC ENY at 10 seems a little low?  The plane can't reach 300mph ias.

Why is the ENY for the 38J and 38L the same?  The 38L is clearly the superior aircraft.

I'm surprised that you have the 109G-2 with higher ENY than the G-6.

I agree with Bronk that chunks of 5 is too big.

What is your formula?

To answer the last question: There is none.

It took me two minutes to make that list. I didn't think much about it but went just alphabetically through that list and assigned the ENY value to it by instinct.
It's based on a subconscius mix consisting my knowledge about performance (based on lots of testing), experience of flying and fighting against them and a lot of consideration about gameplay impact.

And I did not expect the list would be agreed on by everybody as is. But that wasn't my point either: As initally stated it's not a real new ENY proposal. 
I just wanted to show that in the end such a subjective list (though I claim it's still based on lots of reasoning ) will come to similar results as a very laboriously computed one, which will meet at least as much debate and will also require a lot of manual "subjective" adjustments

(109G-6 6 G-2: I think may just have rated G6 ENY a tad lower because of the heavier armament - the 13mm guns do make a difference
P-38L: I don't see that plane as "clearly superior" to the 38J
Hurricane II: Turn on a dime, easy to fly, no bad handling, good roll and 4 Hizookas. A wirbel turret on wings)

[stroker71]

Going to get flamed for this but here it goes.

Why not start eny values at 1 or 2 rather than 5?  Once eny kicks in your sometimes outnumbered bad enough that it would help the equalize the sides.  Isn't that what ENY is there for?  Or maybe start adding a perk cost to lower eny planes once % of a side reaches a certian level.  I know I know guys with a gazzilion perks won't care... but the perk cost is in addition to the eny value.  So once eny reaches 3 your LA7(as example) cost 3 perks(also an example).  Usually the low number side gets hammered from both sides so this may help.  Just throwing ideas out there.

[BnZs]

P-38L: I don't see that plane as "clearly superior" to the 38J

Exactly the same in performance, but with the extra goodies of dive brakes and boosted ailerons. That's as unarguable a case for superiority of one plane over another as you are likely to get in AHII