Author Topic: Order Weighting on Damage for Kill/Assist (Read 177 times)

Vermillion · « **on:** February 19, 2000, 10:31:00 PM »

Hitech would it be possible to do an Order weighting on the damage ranking for determining on who gets the kill or assist??

Lately it seems like I have gotten pretty good at aiming for wings and tails and sawing them off with my Pony. This is a must since the overall weak .50's must be concentrated to do much damage. Plus once I disable the enemy this way I can concentrate on regaining my E.

The problem is this. I will be tooling along up high. Fight a bandit, and remove his wing or tail, and he starts to spiral in, so I pull off and grab for sky.

Then some idiot (yes in this case I'm calling members of my team idiots) dives in with cannons blazing, unloads his entire magazine into the enemy till it explodes. If they would have waited 30 seconds, gravity would have solved the problem for them.

Oh and just guess who gets the kill? Well let me clue you that its not me.

This wasn't a problem till lately, but it seems to be getting worse. 12 Kills in two days (about 4-5 hours of flying) were lost this way.

Its really sad when you consider that Assists don't count for squat when calculating Kills/Death, Kills/Sortie, or Kills/Time.

And I have started hearing others complain of this on country channel. Its not just me. And don't start blaming the -1C pilots, its usually Spitfires and 205's that are the guilty parties.

It would be really nice if once a major structural part of an aircraft is removed or destroyed (wing, tail section, or engine shot out) the "killer" is locked in and further damage doesn't count towards the assist or kill designation.

Just my opinon

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

Swager · « **Reply #1 on:** February 19, 2000, 11:11:00 PM »

Verm, I can definately relate to that.

On the other side I have seen an enemy trailing smoke maneuvering (climbing, diving, and turning) and firing on a countrymate and I line up and blow off a wing or explode the plane and I get an assist.

I just start laughing! I guess what goes around comes around.

Once I went after a con but someone got there before me and shot off a wing. As it was falling I took a long distance pot shot at it. Basically a shot in the dark. Well it hit. A little hit sprite appeared and I thought "Oh No!" Sure enough I got credit for the kill. I felt like such a turd! I believe the other pilot (Who actually made the kill) was Bloom25. I must of apologized to him for 15 minutes! He kept on replying back, "Its OK swag, np"

I sure hope he believed how sorry I was!!

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JG2 "Richthofen"

"My Brother-In-Law used to work for the
telephone company"

Pilot Office Christopher Hart III
Hornet Squadron, France, May 1940
From Novel "A Piece Of Cake"

[This message has been edited by Swager (edited 02-19-2000).]

bloom25 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 20, 2000, 01:12:00 AM »

It's ok Swager, NP.

This happens from time to time, but usually it's unintentional. What usually happens to me is when you are firing at a bogey, one of your teammates flies in front of you, and you end up killing yourself. I had a terrible sortie last night where everything went wrong. (Even filmed part of it, maybe I'll post it.) It all began well, I saw a bogey about 10k below me, so I decided to go for it. I ended up closing to 600 without being detected, but the instant I opened up, the bogey (205) made a hard turn and forced an overshoot. I gained a little alt, lag turned into him and began to fire again. I landed about 4 pings on his tail section, but no damage. Just then one of my teammates flew in front of me and started shooting. Of course I lost my great 6 position and had to settle for a quick snapshot. Just as I got to 200 away, the bogey did a quick warp (yes, It's on film) just clear of my guns. As I turned to pursue, a hill suddenly appeared in front of me. You can guess the rest.

I'll add the film in a while.

edit: Here it is: www.ece.orst.edu/~bloom/badsortie.ahf

I need to also say that I realize that my countrymate was only trying to help, or may have been unaware of my situation. Please don't get the impression that I was angry at you, as I had lots of fun winging with you tonight.

It was not your fault I plowed into that hill. Besides, 99 times out of 100 I appreciate any help that I can get. This was just one of those sorties where everything went wrong.

bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS

[This message has been edited by bloom25 (edited 02-20-2000).]

Fishu · « **Reply #3 on:** February 20, 2000, 05:39:00 AM »

And I always thought that .50cal dweebs were stealing my kills from my uber kanonen plane..
Somehow I don't think gun has anything to do with it

Vermillion · « **Reply #4 on:** February 20, 2000, 10:20:00 AM »

No its not just cannons bird Fishu, and your right.

But I still think it would be better if the "kill" was set in stone once "catastrophic damage" was done to the enemy.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the kill should be awarded after a wing had been shot off. Because we all know you can still get home or ditch with part of a wing gone, a tail shot off, or your engine killed.

My point is that who the killer could possibely be is set, and can't be change, once critical damage is done.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

Kieren · « **Reply #5 on:** February 20, 2000, 10:45:00 AM »

Got jumped by two C205's and a Spit in the wee hours this morning... I was low, alone (for the moment) and in big trouble. I got the Spit (after he blew the jump, saw black and white smike trailing behind (wing parts too. I turn to the first macci and get a good solid hit on him. The next macci comes next, and luck with me, I get him to. WOW! got out of that... suddenly parts are flying off me. Yup, the horribly mangled Spit gets me from behind, some two minutes after I hit him. I wish people would steal kills like those.

Pongo · « **Reply #6 on:** February 20, 2000, 10:58:00 AM »

I agree with Vermilion. I hope as well that the damage conditions would more closely indicate the state of the aircraft. If the wing or tail was gone on the gun camera film then a kill would be awarded right..Maybe add two more incremants to the wings so that if it was light damage only the tip would be gone. But once the aircraft has non- recoverbable damage its a kill. We are not accumulating pilot kills here and neither where they historically. If the pilot manages to ditch then good for him but its still a kill. He has saved his life he hasnt saved his plane. "Sorry Lt. cant award that kill, a bomber pilot saw the bogey crash land into a forest yes his wing was gone but its not a kill"
I guess the other side of this is planes that get pinged and lose fuel or rad, then disengage and 5 minites later ditch. That should not be a kill.
This would probably be imposible to get perfect but it can be improved I think.

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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew

Lephturn · « **Reply #7 on:** February 21, 2000, 08:08:00 AM »

I dunno... I think it would be very difficult to implement this properly. Basically, I think it should be way down the list.

The only thing that really pisses me off is when I line up a tartet, start firing... and some dweeb dives in front of me right into my bullet stream. BLAM.. I blow my own bellybutton off. Grrrrr. My solution to this and kill stealing (when repeated and intentional) is to follow the guy around and wait for him to saddle up... then fly in front of HIM. When they ask why I'm doing that it usually gets my point across.

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Lephturn
The Flying Pigs
Visit Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH news, resources, and training data.
http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/

Fishu · « **Reply #8 on:** February 22, 2000, 03:54:00 AM »

Yes, AH does need some critical damage / killer thing..
I were few weeks ago whining about this and suggesting about thing that if someone shoots horizontal stab off, its his kill, not someones who shoots that guys wings etc. while hes floating towards ground with unconditional plane, which would go down no matter what (due to horizontal stab damage).

Sometimes I just see them diving after dewinged planes that are in death spiral, even though if theres one enemy up there, whos not damaged at all (and then they might even get a kill out of that dead bird, which you just got rid of)

hitech · « **Reply #9 on:** February 22, 2000, 09:23:00 AM »

How kills are awarded won't be changing in the forseable future.
In the methods you are sugesting there are just as many unfairness.
For instance some one can do 95% of the damage to a plane, then someone puting 5% damage in a wing would get the kill because he put the bullet in that finaly broke the wing.

HiTech

Vermillion · « **Reply #10 on:** February 22, 2000, 10:11:00 AM »

Hitech you misunderstand

Using your example here is how it would work. As soon as the wing broke off (ie "critical damage"), you look at the damage dealt.

Say Pilot A did 95% damage to wing, Pilot B did 5% damage to wing and tore it off, and the rest of the aircraft is untouched.

The plane is now spiraling towards the Earth and out of control.

Now currently, say a third pilot (Pilot C) comes roaring in, follows the enemy down to the deck emptying his cannons into the fueselage, and does slightly more total damage than Pilot A. Right now Pilot C gets the kill even though the enemy would have been dead regardless in the next 30 seconds. Is that fair to Pilot A?

What we ask is that the damage model at the moment of "critical damage", in this case when the wing tore off, looks at the damage ratio, And see's that Pilot A (95% wing) did more damage Pilot B (5% wing).

Now the model decides that if this aircraft subsequently crashs, pilot bails, or ditches, Pilot A will be awarded the "kill" at that time, regardless.

So even if Pilot C comes roaring in and empties his cannons into the already "Critically damaged and out of control" enemy. Pilot A will get the kill award.

RAM · « **Reply #11 on:** February 23, 2000, 07:56:00 AM »

Yep I agree with Vermillion. Yesterday I caught a Spit with my 190, and I bursted it during 2 seconds with my 2 20mms and 2 13mms...the plane started to leak oil, broke a entire wing and starded going down in a death spiral...I was looking the awesome view...when JIMB0 came and bursted it until it exploded in the air!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so I got an assist only. I'm not exactly Lucky luke,so for me downing a Spit in my fw190 is a matter of pride, and when someone comes and gets my kill...well lets say that I feeled deeply offended to say the least.

This Kill-award system is not fair.So I suggest you to do what Verm says...A broken wing (entire not half) means authomatic kill...a lost tail means automatic kill...all controls damaged (no elevators no ailerons and no rudder...I've been like that once!!!) means automatic kill. Let the plane go down in flames until the pilot chutes but award the kill as soon as the plane is doomed. I's VERY annoying to see that you are stolen three times in two nights that way as I was.Please fix it. Thks in advance.

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Ram, out

JG2 "Richthofen"

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 02-23-2000).]